Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Tau characters are kinda renowned for being awful (but they look cool), but ithink shadowsun is at least half decent now, especially with an ethereal (I know, almost swearing for tau players).

Shadowsun, thanks to new stealth generator rules, has stealth and shrouding, so has a 4+ cover even in the open, and when the ethereal finds a carnifex, your army doesn't completely die, because they're all Ld 10. Also whilst the ethereals alive you can reroll all morale checks!

With the old stealth generator rules, her fusion Blasters were all but stupid, no, sorry, they were just stupid, but now that distance doesn't effect stealth fields, they're now quite useful (razorback spam would just die), once the ethereals dead she will effectively be BS10!

Now the main reason people hate her, she's not an independent character till the drones die, but they're the reason she's good, so there's a paradox to her utility, which is a shame because every other bit of her is awesome!

So what does everyone think, is she useful yet, and most of all should the drones prevent independent character?

Marginally more useful in that she's no longer unplayable garbage, but still not very useful because of the high point cost. There's still the same problem of having to choose between staying in an ideal position to make use of the leadership boost and moving up to close range to effectively use the melta guns. And either way you're just paying too many points for the capability that you do use.

So what does everyone think, is she useful yet, and most of all should the drones prevent independent character?

They shouldn't because of the clear rule that drones don't count in every other case, so making a special exception for Shadowsun makes no sense. Of course this won't be resolved until the next codex, if at all, and the rules are perfectly clear that the drones do prevent her from joining a unit.

 Peregrine wrote:
Marginally more useful in that she's no longer unplayable garbage

Yeah, I really like all the models for the characters, and wish they had better rules, but I think shadowsun a the best out of the 3 (I don't like farsights breakaway faction rule, but I agree with it)

Of course this won't be resolved until the next codex, if at all, and the rules are perfectly clear that the drones do prevent her from joining a unit.

I think they will change it in the codex, especially if the rumours of matt ward writing it are true, then she'll probably get railguns, nah, but seriously it makes no sense that 3 drones stop her being independent, it's almost as bad as ethereals taking EMP grenades.

I can see the reason why people would want to take her. Deepstrike and jump into cover for a 2+ save and try and pop two tanks a turn with her fusion blasters.

Or simply running her for the LD bubble. Some people even talk about taking an ethereal just so it can jump off terrain turn 1.

The problem I see is that she is built with two conflicting roles. She can either stay back with the army and boost morale (expensive but I can see the advantage) or deepstriking her to make use of those powerful accurate melta guns.

I hear she is a beast in Cities of Death (Not sure, never played) and one on one she could actually be a lethal character killer. But again, her points could probably just be spend on fusion blaster suits that would do a more efficient job.

quack98 wrote:
I think shadowsun a the best out of the 3 (I don't like farsights breakaway faction rule, but I agree with it).

Of course that's not really saying much given that the other two Tau characters are the worst character in the game, and the second-worst character in the game.

Shadowsun loosing her Independent Character because of her drones is very dumb. It would be nice to be able to have her bouncing around the field with more stealth suits. The only thing that would make Farsight better at the moment would be the removal of his Tau unit restrictions to start.

 Enigma Crisis wrote:
Shadowsun loosing her Independent Character because of her drones is very dumb. It would be nice to be able to have her bouncing around the field with more stealth suits. The only thing that would make Farsight better at the moment would be the removal of his Tau unit restrictions to start.

I don't mind his restrictions. As long as you don't play any higher then 1500pts you can get away with only having one Broadside team and one Hammerhead. Farsight deepstriking in directly behind a warlord and his unit of terminators and absolutely ruining them with 8 rapid fire plasma rifles (plus whatever second weapons you brought) at BS4 or BS5 with ML is the lulziest. Maybe running a Farsight deathball isn't the most competitive of tournament lists, but it sure as hell is fun.

 Peregrine wrote:

quack98 wrote:
I think shadowsun a the best out of the 3 (I don't like farsights breakaway faction rule, but I agree with it).

Of course that's not really saying much given that the other two Tau characters are the worst character in the game, and the second-worst character in the game.

I'm guessing Aun'va is the worst?

quack98 wrote:
Tau characters are kinda renowned for being awful (but they look cool), but ithink shadowsun is at least half decent now, especially with an ethereal (I know, almost swearing for tau players).

Shadowsun, thanks to new stealth generator rules, has stealth and shrouding, so has a 4+ cover even in the open, and when the ethereal finds a carnifex, your army doesn't completely die, because they're all Ld 10. Also whilst the ethereals alive you can reroll all morale checks!

With the old stealth generator rules, her fusion Blasters were all but stupid, no, sorry, they were just stupid, but now that distance doesn't effect stealth fields, they're now quite useful (razorback spam would just die), once the ethereals dead she will effectively be BS10!

Now the main reason people hate her, she's not an independent character till the drones die, but they're the reason she's good, so there's a paradox to her utility, which is a shame because every other bit of her is awesome!

So what does everyone think, is she useful yet, and most of all should the drones prevent independent character?

She already has a 4+ save in the open from the shield generator. You could argue now Stealth is even worse for her in some ways. Before she was immune to weapons outside 36” and effectively got to roll 2 saves against weapons inside 36". Now she gets 1 save that is the same as her shield and the long range weapons now hit her and most long range weapons instant death her. (I am aware you can get a 2+cover save but overall I think the change is worse for her)

The main problem is that she can get instead death from stg 6 weapons, can now get hurt from long range weapons at long range and as she is not an IC so she only Looks Out Sir’s to the drones on a 4+. Add in her short range and, well she cannot survive long. 1 Plasma cannon shot and odds are you just took 3 wounds that instant death her.

She is still one of my fav characters even if her performance is not the best.

Pottsey wrote:

The main problem is that she can get instead death from stg 6 weapons, can now get hurt from long range weapons at long range and as she is not an IC so she only Looks Out Sir’s to the drones on a 4+. Add in her short range and, well she cannot survive long. 1 Plasma cannon shot and odds are you just took 3 wounds that instant death her.

It's annoying, because she's designed to take out heavy weapons/vehicles, but can't handle them, she should either be T4 or eternal warrior (but probably not as that doesn't make much sense).

I really want to use shadowsun aggressively, but i cant bring myself to feed my opponent the slay the warlord vp on a plate.

quack98 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

quack98 wrote:
I think shadowsun a the best out of the 3 (I don't like farsights breakaway faction rule, but I agree with it).

Of course that's not really saying much given that the other two Tau characters are the worst character in the game, and the second-worst character in the game.

I'm guessing Aun'va is the worst?

Yes Aun'va is the worse on the tabletop out of the three. He is decked out to be pure combat but has the worst WS and be demolished in any challenge. He suffers what every Ethereal suffers from and that is when he dies he forces the chance of our units breaking and running. I would rank the named characters in this order Shadowsun, Farsight, Aun'va. Add in FW characters R'ymr, R'alai, Shadowsun, Farisght, then Aun'va.

 Enigma Crisis wrote:

quack98 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

quack98 wrote:
I think shadowsun a the best out of the 3 (I don't like farsights breakaway faction rule, but I agree with it).

Of course that's not really saying much given that the other two Tau characters are the worst character in the game, and the second-worst character in the game.

I'm guessing Aun'va is the worst?

Yes Aun'va is the worse on the tabletop out of the three. He is decked out to be pure combat but has the worst WS and be demolished in any challenge. He suffers what every Ethereal suffers from and that is when he dies he forces the chance of our units breaking and running. I would rank the named characters in this order Shadowsun, Farsight, Aun'va. Add in FW characters R'ymr, R'alai, Shadowsun, Farisght, then Aun'va.

If Aun'va was only 120ish points I might use him, because he does have some use, especially with shadowsun, it's just he's way overpriced.

quack98 wrote:
If Aun'va was only 120ish points I might use him, because he does have some use, especially with shadowsun, it's just he's way overpriced.

He has no use at all, since he's worse than a standard ethereal. He gives out stubborn instead of a re-roll (bad when you want to fail a morale check and break from combat), and he isn't an independent character so you can't put him in a broadside squad. To make him even remotely useful you'd have to decrease his point cost well below the 50 points of a far superior standard ethereal (which won't happen because GW isn't going to print a 10 point special character) and I'm not sure I'd even want him on the table if he was free.

I don't understand how he has no armour save despite being on a floating metal chair, and his honour guard have fire warrior-esque armour

Back to Shadowsun, because unlike Aun'va, she could possibly have some use (Aun'va is beyond help ). I've run her fairly effectively a couple of times. And find that deepstriking behind a parking lot is very fun, and quite effective. Careful placement is just needed to avoid her being immediately being killed. The greatly improved stealth and 4++ helps. I find she is a bit overcosted, but can be effective. Not much else gives you two meltas at BS5 that can target two different units. The only big problem is that despite 3 wounds T6 instants her, giving away a pretty easy KP. I usually have a Crisis Commander to take the role of slay the warlord, as I usually run Fireknives and keep him much farther back in safer areas.