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So far, this is the list modified from my 5th ed list:

Belial - 190.
SB/Sword of Silence.
Deathwing Command Squad - 300
Champion, Apothecary, 4 TH/SS, 1CML.

7 Deathwing - 348.
Sergeant, CML/PF, SB/CF, 2 SB/PF, 2 TH/SS.
Deathwing LRC - 295.
MM, SB.

7 Deathwing - 348.
Sergeant, CML/PF, SB/CF, 2 SB/PF, 2 TH/SS.
Deathwing LRC - 295.
MM, SB.

So far that's 1776 points. I'm thinking of dropping a SB/PF guy from each DW squad and adding a DW LRR.

Any thoughts on what I could add?

Drop the Stormbolters off the Deathwing LRCs and shave a few points here and there and buy some more Terminators?

You can't take th/ss on the cyclone anymore.

Id drop the deathwing upgrades on the landraiders and take a 3rd.. Id also consider getting a libby probably Ezekiel as that would make the command squad Ws5 and Belial Ws7! Then take a deathwing champion for the Ap2 challenges at Ws6 :-)

Triple landraider causes people so much more problems in this edition than double raider.

 FlingitNow wrote:
You can't take th/ss on the cyclone anymore.

Id drop the deathwing upgrades on the landraiders and take a 3rd.. Id also consider getting a libby probably Ezekiel as that would make the command squad Ws5 and Belial Ws7! Then take a deathwing champion for the Ap2 challenges at Ws6 :-)

Triple landraider causes people so much more problems in this edition than double raider.

Are you sure? it sure sounds like you can the way its written. There's also nothing that says you cant. It just says may take a cyclone.

 FlingitNow wrote:
You can't take th/ss on the cyclone anymore.

Yes, you can.

No you can't, you left off the entry for the TH/SS that states for 5 points the model replaces ALL of his weapons with a TH/SS. This would include the cyclone.

My effort was

Belial SB/SwS 190

Librarian W TA and level 2. 130


Deathwing Command 290
Deathwing Banner
Champ with Halberd
4 TH/SS since the Apoth can't be armed with a CC weapon the way it is worded.

Deathwing X10 515
5 Thunder Hammer SS
2X Cyclones
Split the TH/SS guys into their own squad and the 2 cyclones with the Sgt and 2 storm bolter guys.

Deathwing X10 515
5 Thunder Hammer SS
2X Cyclones
Split the TH/SS guys into their own squad and the 2 cyclones with the Sgt and 2 storm bolter guys.

3x Dreads with 2 twin linked Auto Cannons. 360

Theory is I combat squad the 2 troops selections into Assault and shooting squads. The shooters move up field on foot with the dreadnoughts. 3 dreadnoughts have a good shot at hitting flyers with their twin linked auto's. The command and two assault term groups port in with Belial.

Its infancy level design and you can drop the dreads and librarian for another shooty term squad or work in a nephlim for flyers by killing the libby and one of the dreads.

In 2k I am not sure you have enough power to field two LRC's. Much less anything to capp enough objectives to win the game.

I dont think they can combat squad. You may just have to march the SS/TH in from of the shooters.

Piccolo wrote:
No you can't, you left off the entry for the TH/SS that states for 5 points the model replaces ALL of his weapons with a TH/SS. This would include the cyclone.

Now that is my usual style of play so that's not a biggy.

As for the Apothecary, that is really going to mess with a lot of players that already have them with th/ss.

The storm bolters on the LRC are already glued on so I can't take them off.

I'd like to add a third Land Raider but the venerable has to stay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anybody tried Azrael instead of Belial in a DW army?

Piccolo wrote:
No you can't, you left off the entry for the TH/SS that states for 5 points the model replaces ALL of his weapons with a TH/SS. This would include the cyclone.

Why cant you swap your weapons for TH SS then add a cyclone?, doesnt say the cyclone replaces anything

MarkyMark wrote:

Piccolo wrote:
No you can't, you left off the entry for the TH/SS that states for 5 points the model replaces ALL of his weapons with a TH/SS. This would include the cyclone.

Why cant you swap your weapons for TH SS then add a cyclone?, doesnt say the cyclone replaces anything

That's exactly how its done!

Th/ss replaces all weapons is the cyclone a weapon? You add the cyclone after guess what you've paid 25its and it is still replaced by the th/ss...

Why does the deathwing upgrade have to stay? Everything is twinlinked so less benefit from preferred enemy and most people kill landraiders with hull point damage anyway. You have the heavy support slots open?

After all the reading I did yesterday and Saturday I didn't catch that they removed combat squad from the Deathwing.

That changes some ideas I had.

Yeah, I'm keeping them open for Vindicators in larger games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just read up on Ezekiel btw.

What a power house. That buff and Mindworm is deadly.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Th/ss replaces all weapons is the cyclone a weapon? You add the cyclone after guess what you've paid 25its and it is still replaced by the th/ss...

Why does the deathwing upgrade have to stay? Everything is twinlinked so less benefit from preferred enemy and most people kill landraiders with hull point damage anyway. You have the heavy support slots open?

Yes TH SS replaces all weapons, so buy that upgrade first, then you may take a cyclone, so buy that upgrade second.

Job done

Yes buy the cyclone 2nd and waste 25 points. As the th/ss requires you to replace ALL weapons.

Not a fan of the deathwing land raiders - as was previously stated, I almost always glance 'raiders to death.

Until a faq comes out, TH/SS terminators can take a cyclone missle launcher. There is no rule whatsoever that dictates the order in which upgrades are applied. You swap all weapons for th/ss for 5 points. That is done. Now you add a cyclone for 25. Since you already have the th/ss, and removed all weapons to get them, short of a faq there is no reason why you cannon now add wargear.

There is no order stated in the th/ss entry. Nothing that says the replacement is a one off. If you have th/ss you have no other weapons. That is what the rule tells you.

 FlingitNow wrote:
is the cyclone a weapon?

Does it kill things?

Correct. There is no order stated, so you cannot assume that it happens in the order you assume.

I would say take some Land Speeder Typhoons, as they're still super cheap and you can take up to 6 (!) in one squadron. Not that you need to.

That, or just get some Vindis to roll with the LRCs and give your opponent two options: deal with DW or deal with Demolisher Cannons.

I can;t see taking an apothecary in the termi command squad anymore. You lose the powerfist on the apothecary, leaving him with just a stormbolter. Now you only have 4 guys in the squad that can fight well.

Oh, how are you getting a champion and 4 TH/SS in the command squad with the apothecary there?

To answer my own question, after rereading, you could put a TH/SS or LC on the apothecary as it is currently written. I have a feeling this will be amended to make apothecaries useless in the FAQ, but for now, it seems you can put alternate weapons on the apothecary (because the narthecium is not a weapon).

 Inigo Montoya wrote:
Correct. There is no order stated, so you cannot assume that it happens in the order you assume.

Permissive rule set I'm afraid. You can't do anything your are not explicitly told you can do. You can just assume something you are not told. Also check the ba librarian faq as its wording is the same....

I've tested the army and I am not impressed with some aspects.

Proven:

Belial with SB/SoS - This guy is good against MEQ and anything that's not a 2+ save in CC.

DW Terminator Squads - As always just brutal when used in conjunction with other DW squads.

DW LRC - This is basically a Tactical Squad that can transport one of your DW Squads. It works well and the DWV rule is great at keeping non melta weapons from dinging up your tank with immobilised and Weapon Destroyed results. I intend to add a Techmarine for added hilarity.

Things that didn't work well:

DW Command Squad - In short, just not enough bodies. I wanted more guys in this squad to take the hits and dish them out. The apothecary is NOT worth it here. These guys aren't Paladins and cannot take the hits that a Paladin squad can. The Champion was pretty good at taking the challenges and issuing them. Other than this, I wanted more from the squad.

So where do I go from here?

Well...

I'm going to drop the Command Squad in favour of a ten man DW Squad. This squad is going to Deep Strike in on T1 or T2 while the two other squads are in their DWLRC, driving up the board.

The 10 strong DW squad will DS in and cause havoc on the front lines or take out a specific unit that could give me trouble. The squad will have a mix of TH/SS and SB/PF with a Plasma Cannon and a CML thrown in. Or maybe two CML instead.

Off to write the list, will update later.

Command is good for challenge protection for Belial and the banners i wouldn't take it otherwise. The apothecary shouldn't be taken as if your taking the command squad it should have a banner of fortitude. It would then do more for your army. But only if everything is deepstriking or it is one of the squads in a landraider.

To answer my own question, after rereading, you could put a TH/SS or LC on the apothecary as it is currently written

Sadly you can't
The option for the apotechary states :
- One DW Terminator may be upgraded to a DW Apothecary

The option for the weapon states :
- Any DW Terminator can ...

A DW Apothecary is a DW member in TDA armour, but it's not a DW Terminator anymore
Exact same problem than any other apothecaries all over the Space marines armies (except GK I'd guess, "because they're worth it")

 FlingitNow wrote:
Command is good for challenge protection for Belial and the banners i wouldn't take it otherwise. The apothecary shouldn't be taken as if your taking the command squad it should have a banner of fortitude. It would then do more for your army. But only if everything is deepstriking or it is one of the squads in a landraider.

Ahhhh, in that case, there is no reason for my army to have that banner as not all of them are DS or in the DW LRC.

I might have had a poor game with the Command Squad. I'm not sure if I should try them again though.

If I do, I'll have a spare box of DW. What should I do with them?

Knights?

TanKoL wrote:

To answer my own question, after rereading, you could put a TH/SS or LC on the apothecary as it is currently written

The option for the weapon states :
- Any DW Terminator can ...

Good catch, I guess I missed that. That means the apothecary is still a pile of gak that nobody in their right mind will waste 30 points on (essentially, you are paying 74 points for that apothecary, and he does not even have a decent CC attack).

Ok... here is what I think is a much better list that still has a great deal of points left over:

Belial - 190.

Deathwing Squad - 354.
Sergeant with TH/SS, 2 TH/SS, 2 SB/PF, 1SB/CF, 1 SB/PF/CML.

Deathwing Squad - 299.
1 SB/PS, 1 TH/SS, 2 SB/PF, 1 SB/CF, 1 SB/PF/CML.
LRC - 295.
SB, MM, DW vehicle.

Deathwing Squad - 299.
1 SB/PS, 1 TH/SS, 2 SB/PF, 1 SB/CF, 1 SB/PF/CML.
LRC - 295.
SB, MM, DW vehicle.

I have 269 points left and I dunno what to add again.

Are you trying to stay pure deathwing? If not, typhoon speeders. If so, add venerable dreads.