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I and a couple friends have begun to look into Warmachine. Our Warhammer 40k money just isnt going as far as it used to, and the models are beginning to get far to convoluted and over done (in our opinions ofcourse). We started some research into Warmachine, but we came up a tad short of information. So, I thought it might be best to pose the questions we have here on Dakka and see how that goes.

#1: Is the Two-Player Battlebox the best place to start off? Or would it be better to just pick up the rule book, and each of us pick up an army starter box?
#2: About how long do games last? Are they marathon games, or is it a game that could be played in say...half an hour?
#3: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each army? (We looked here on Dakka, and the descriptions werent all that in-depth)
#4: Colossals. Is it like Apocalypse for 40k? Cost comparison?
#5: Are there strict rules for games, or can you use the fluff to make scenarios of your own?

These are just the biggest questions that we came across in our search for knowledge. The models look cool, Ive heard great things about the game, but we just had a hard time finding some things out and thought that the veterans here might be willing to share their wisdom. Thanks!

Purifyingflame_7 wrote:#1: Is the Two-Player Battlebox the best place to start off? Or would it be better to just pick up the rule book, and each of us pick up an army starter box?

This depends on a few things. If you are interested in the Factions involved, it's a great deal. It comes with a mini-rulebook, the two boxes, and about $100 extra stuff on top of all that. It's a great deal, but lmitted in choices. If you want more choice in armies, the book + plastic box is pretty great to do as well though. And someone is going to have to pick up their own copy at some point anyhow. Regardless, no real route is a bad choice in these, though the two-player box is quite awesome just as a deal in itself.

Purifyingflame_7 wrote:#2: About how long do games last? Are they marathon games, or is it a game that could be played in say...half an hour?

The battleboxes can take about 12-25 minutes or so after you get a hang of things, but can take a bit longer as you figure things out. They are about 20pts. worth per side. As games get larger, they play longer, but as a way to gauge things, tournaments often run with about an hour and a half for 50pts.

Purifyingflame_7 wrote:#3: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each army? (We looked here on Dakka, and the descriptions werent all that in-depth)

Part of the reason the description here on Dakka is a bit vague is each army has a variety of playstyles and descriptors. Kind of things I would say are as follows, but note that within each Faction one can mix things up a bit that are not seen here in the general overviews.

Cygnar is focused mostly on combining great ranged support wtih pretty solid melee and warjack support. Their casters include some of the best assassins in the game as well. They depend a lot on Mercenary models to fill holes the army itself has, and each warcaster oftentimes needs a completely different set of tools to work optimally, making it a bit of an expensive army. They also have expensive models in-game, which makes it a bit of a finesse army to keep things goign right.

The Protectorate of Menoth is amazingly good at warjack support, but also has very good infantry, and a LOT of denial effects. They oftentimes can prevent spellcasting, certain status effects, remove spells, or control casualty selection. The issue is that their warlocks are very vulnerable, and they have some issues with terrain and threat range extension beyond guns.

Khador is what I would call a "stats Faction". They often depend on high armor inherently on things, or abilities to crank defense throught he roof. They have a plethora of damage and accuracy buffs, and also have a good amount of "burst speed" potential, with stuff that makes their otherwise slow models suddenly turboing accross the battlefield. The trade-off is they are not especially good at warjack support, often running a single big-ass mean warjack per waracster. They also tend to be farely predictable in threats and damage capacity, so are kind of easy to control.

Cryx is often vaunted as the "power faction". They have a lot of things that ignore rules that affect a lot of the game in the Undead rule. They also tend to have very individually powerful warcasters and solos. They can tear through armor, have a lot of sideways tricks to things, and some of the strongest warcasters out htere. They suffer mostly in that their non-character warjacks tend to be made of tissue paper, and they don't really do a lot ot help fix that, so are dependent on lots of infantry, whcih has its own trade-offs lately. In addition, they have nearly no ranged game, and are dependent on magic, which is easier to mess up in this game.

The last main Warmachine Faction, the Retribution of Scyrah is a heavy combined arms Faction, with lots and lots of shooting potential. They have a very strong stable of solos, and units, some of the best of their sorts in the game. The trade-off is their warjacks and warcasters tend to be a bit meh, and they are hyper-vulnerable to range denial. This makes them very match-up dependent, doing great against htings like the Protectorate and Cygnar, but potentially being steamrolled by specific match-ups. Also, being the youngest Faction, they have the least depth of options.

Mercenaries are a catch-all term for various models that can supplement main Factions. One can also run a purely Mercenary force, but note there is no official starter box for them anymore, and each Mercenary warcaster requires more or less entirely different lists than what others need.

I can do a similar run-down on Hordes if you are at all interested, which is fully compatable with Warmachine.

Purifyingflame_7 wrote:#4: Colossals. Is it like Apocalypse for 40k? Cost comparison?

Colossals can be ran at any point level that they can fit. They are not ran much at lower point levels, however, due to costing lots of points. A typical heavy warjack in Warmachine costs about as low as 6 and as many as 13 points, with most falling between 8 and 10. Colossals by contrast are 18-19 points. With games being 25, 35, or 50 points typcially, the amount htis eats of your army is noticeable. They have some nice advantages in generally being very flexible, and effecient for buff application, but as a trade-off, when lost typcially swing the game in a huge amount.

There is a specail high point thing called Unbound, but huge-based models can be played as long as they are affordable.

Purifyingflame_7 wrote:#5: Are there strict rules for games, or can you use the fluff to make scenarios of your own?

There is an official set of tournament scenarios called Steamroller that is updated annually for tournament play. There are no rules to create custom units in this game, and none are planned, as the rules are intended to be fairly tight and interpretted RAW as much as possible.

And stuff.

#1 The two player Warmachine box is a great place to start, as long as it contains the factions that you and a friend might be interested in. It's a great and reasonably balanced introduction to the game, and the mini-rule book is very handy. The Casters and Jacks for each side are pretty good, and you'll find you can use them a fair bit, though the units included in the box are a little more corner case - however, because of the steep discount you're getting by buying the box, it's still very very much worth it.

#2 While learning, games will take a while (of course), but once you're on track, you can easily get a 25pt game done in an hour, a 50pt game done in two. A 15pt game can be done in half an hour, if you're quick about it.

#3 That...would take a lot of answering. Every army can do everything pretty well, and different casters in a faction can play very differently from each other. Suffice to say that Cygnar does shooting well, Menoth does jacks and denial well, Khador applies Axe to Face well and Cryx will debuff you and hit you hard and fast, but can crumple a bit easier, and Ret focuses on combined arms and versatility.

That's the very very basic version, but there's a lot more to it than that.

#4 Forge world prices for them (equivilant cost to a mega-dread, $100 with a discount from the right store), BUT you can use them in normal games. Pretty well balanced for the most part, though Cygnarian Stormwalls are pretty nasty.

#5 Yeah, of course However, Privateer Press does put out a lot of alternative senarios that you could use as well. Look up the rules for Steamroller (their official tournament format), you'll find 18 different scenarios, and they change every year. Plus, they have 4 leagues each year, and each has a few new scenarios related to them to try. Nothing to stop you making your own among friends though.

 Purifyingflame_7 wrote:


#1: Is the Two-Player Battlebox the best place to start off? Or would it be better to just pick up the rule book, and each of us pick up an army starter box?
#2: About how long do games last? Are they marathon games, or is it a game that could be played in say...half an hour?
#3: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each army? (We looked here on Dakka, and the descriptions werent all that in-depth)
#4: Colossals. Is it like Apocalypse for 40k? Cost comparison?
#5: Are there strict rules for games, or can you use the fluff to make scenarios of your own?

For 1: I would say that the 2 player battle box is great if you are interested in either faction included, and that goes for both Warmachine and Hordes. Even if only one player is interested in the factions included, you essentially 'break even' getting the 2 player battle box if you would buy the mini rulebook and the infantry squad included seperately, meaning that you can sell or trad the other faction for a profit.
For 2: I would agree with what other playrs have said.
For 3: As a note, what warcaster or warlock you run dramatically changes how an army plays, even with every other model being the same, so as a catch all its not always easy to quantify an army having a set style in the same way as 40k. However, in the most general of terms, Cygnar is a mixed arms faction with an emphasis on high accuracy and electrical attacks, Khador is an elite faction with extremely durable models and an emphasis on ice attacks, the Protectorate of Menoth is a faction focused on buffs and support spells with an emphasis on fire attacks, Cryx is a faction focused on speed, hard hits (a glass cannon of sorts), debuffs, and corrosive attacks. I'm not sure about Retribution, so I won't comment on them. For Hordes, Trollbloods are an extremly durable faction, having something akin to Necron's Reamination Protocols. Circle is another speed based faction, but are more hit and run when compared to Cryx's glass cannon. I know next to nothing about Skorne or Legion's playstyles, however.
4. Colossals are designed for inclusion in any standard game you can find the points for them. However, they are expensive in both terms of points and dollars (costing at least 18 points and easilly over $100) but you get what you pay for. You can play with them if you want but they are by no means necessary.
5. Generally speaking as long as you are playing casually you can do whatever your group allows, its not like PP are going to burst down your doors and force you to play their way. However, Warmahordes is generally more structured than 40k, and deviating from the professionally produced rules is less encouraged in stores. The game is also designed for competitive play, so always keep that in mind. As an additional note, in my experience the scenario tends to make little difference, particularly at lower points levels, because most games tend to end with the 'slay the warcaster/warlock' victory condition.

One thing to say about scenarios-after the battlebox level, I would try playing some of them as it helps balance things IMO

1) If you like the factions involved its awsome. You save almost 50% on the models alone, not including the rulebook. It should be mentioned that you don't need Faction books to play the game. Only the stat cards and the rulebook, and every model comes with it statcard(s).

2) Depends on the point level. A 50 point game(standard for tournament play) is around an hour and a half, depending on player skill. Once you pick up the game's basics(and they are relativly simple) you will find games are quick and easy. A 20 point game like you will be starting out with shouldn't take longer than half hour or so once you have the basics down. 35 points is the bottom end for casual play and that shouldn't take longer than an hour.

3) Well, as follows.

Khador: Very Durable, hard hitting, generally slow. Lots of AoE based shooting. Ice effects for making enemy models stationary.

Protectorate of Menoth: moderatly durable, heavy focus on synergy and buffs. Overall faction has an above average focus levels for casters(three Focus 7, two Focus 8, and one Focus 10) semi-reliant on support units for Warjacks that take their jacks from average to amazing. Lots of good infantry, most Weapon Master infantry. Good amount of magic attacks from medium and heavy infantry too, meaning Incorporeal models are not safe. Shooting is primarily fire based. General weakness is lack of Pathfinder and being only slightly faster than Khador.

Cygnar: moderatly durable, jack of all trades faction with a good mix of everything. Heavy focus on Electricity based attacks, that can leap between enemies and disrupt/damage Warjack Cortexs. Warjacks are on the faster side and most have a ranged weapon of some kind. There is a focus on ranged attacks with the faction and buffs associated with it.

Cryx: Undead faction, focus on gathering Souls from enemy living models to fuel their attacks. Warjacks are fast and hard to hit but fragile when they do get hit. Waves of cheap infantry that can gang up and kill bigger things. Many corrosion based ranged attacks. Magic is focus on debuffing the enemy.

Retribution of Scyrah: Elven faction. Warjacks have decent speed, melee, and ranged attacks, but have below average damage boxes. Many warjacks have a powerfield that regenerates each turn, allowing them to soack up some damage before taking anything permanant. Most ranged attacks are magical, meaning they can hurt Incorporeal models and bypass one of Menoth's warjack buffs. Good magic overall with the faction. Infantry can be hardhitting but squishy. The faction has good assassination tools.

Mercs: There are several different commisions of mercs, or there can be a generic Merc list.

Pirates: Many Merc jacks are Pirate warjacks, which makes them Amphibious. useful if you use water in your maps but mostly just a fluff thing. Really all over the place as a faction.

Dwarves: The Dwarven Kingdom of Rul's defenders that will work for coin. Generall slow and focused on heavy armor. Good shooting attacks. Some good warcasters with excellent synergy with their faction. Most dwarven things only work with Dwarven things, so Rulic Warcasters can only use Rulic jacks and vice verse. It even goes to where Rulic mechanics can only fix rulic jacks.

Highborn Covenant: The remnants of a kingdom conquored by Khador. Uses Merc warjacks and a smattering of Merc units along with some Cygnar.

 Purifyingflame_7 wrote:
I and a couple friends have begun to look into Warmachine. Our Warhammer 40k money just isnt going as far as it used to, and the models are beginning to get far to convoluted and over done (in our opinions ofcourse). We started some research into Warmachine, but we came up a tad short of information. So, I thought it might be best to pose the questions we have here on Dakka and see how that goes.

first up, welcome to the iron Kingdoms.

 Purifyingflame_7 wrote:

#1: Is the Two-Player Battlebox the best place to start off? Or would it be better to just pick up the rule book, and each of us pick up an army starter box?

it all depends. the2-player starter gives a very good deal on a bunch of stuff, and you get a mini rulebook. then again, if the models arent to your liking, you're out a bit. its the same with the single player starter. yeah its fine, and all, and really there is nothing wrong with it. so yeah, six of one, or a half dozen of the other! Personally, i feel either aproach is worth it - going the single player route gives you access to *all* the factions though, as the 2 player starters only cover half the factions.

 Purifyingflame_7 wrote:

#2: About how long do games last? Are they marathon games, or is it a game that could be played in say...half an hour?

how long is a piece of string? I've played 50pt games that i've won inside of seven minutes (assassination) and i've played others that have been knock down drag out slugfests. it all depends, but generally speaking, in tournament turns, you're looking at 4 turns (ie 8 player rounds) of 10 minutes a round with a 5 minute extension at 50pts. So approx an hour and a half undertournament conditions. in more friendly, relaxed conditions, and especially when you're learning and getting to grips with it, yeah, it'll take longer at that size, but if you start with 15-25pts you'll have your games sorted inside of an hour.

 Purifyingflame_7 wrote:

#3: What are the strengths and weaknesses of each army? (We looked here on Dakka, and the descriptions werent all that in-depth)

thats because every army can be built multiple different ways, so often times, what faction you pick comes down to fluff/aesthetics. Take Khador. they're seen as the slow, plodding "brick" faction that can take a hell of a punch, and put out a lot of damage/melee beatsticks. Now, thats not strictly true (aside from the damage output. in khador, there is no such thing as "excessive force"). they might be slow at times, but they're the fastest slow faction in the game. Casters like Strakhov and Vlad can shoot their entire armies across the board in no time. Most casters have access to speed buffs and things like that. And Khadors infantry is generally no slower than anyone elses. Secondly, they're tradtiionally seen as melee beatsticks (listen to the Khador refrain of "axe to face"), but as far as this goes, they're not exclusively beatsticks. Whilst admittedly, their damage output in melee is disgusting, they're no slouches when it comes to a ranged game, and they boast some of the best artillery pieces, snipers and long range gunnery in the game.

Try another faction. Circle. traditiionally seen as squishy/hit and run. Speak to Baldur. He can field a Construct (stone golem) list that would match Khador in terms of hardness and durability. as to squishy, have a chat with the warpwolf skinwalkers (who are up there with best heavy infantry in the game) and tharn ravagers who are all kinds of awesome as shocktroops.

So yeah... Whatever style of play you want to ask, Khador. Circle, as pretty much any other faction can deliver.

Its a level of freedom that is... daunting to 40k players who expect armies to be pigeonholed into a bare handful of viable builds - none of that here!

 Purifyingflame_7 wrote:

#4: Colossals. Is it like Apocalypse for 40k? Cost comparison?

they're big jacks. you can take them at any points level. they're pretty good. Unlike GW, when PP add something to the game, it doesnt break it. Colossals arent mandatory, nore are they pointless. they fit right there in the middle, and are a nice new addition to the game that openup a whole slew of new options, synnergies, builds and combos.

THe Warmachine apocalypse game is called "UNbound", and its not where the game is going. Its basically a tweak to the flow of the game to allow for huge armies with multiple warcasters to be fielded (rather than i go with everything, you go with everything, it boils down to you being able to activate some of your army, then he activates some of his, and so on until your stuff is done)

 Purifyingflame_7 wrote:

#5: Are there strict rules for games, or can you use the fluff to make scenarios of your own?

Its very RAW. which is a good thing. there is no room for arguments. the rules are, literally, what they say. you also have a huge number of scenarios via the steamroller pack, but feel free to devise your own games and look online - there are some very nice homebrews out there - i've got one saved of a "cagematch brawl" mode for the game (mainly at battlebox level). Dont feel that your creativity must be limited in this game!

 Purifyingflame_7 wrote:


These are just the biggest questions that we came across in our search for knowledge. The models look cool, Ive heard great things about the game, but we just had a hard time finding some things out and thought that the veterans here might be willing to share their wisdom. Thanks!

No worries mate - thats what we're here for. any other issues, feel free to ask or PM me. We've got a very good community playing this game

Don't forget to look at the Hordes armies also!