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Hey mates,

Any ideas about improving the following while keeping most of the theme?

155 Chaos Lord, Chaos Bike, Mark of Nurgle, Burning Brand, Lightning Claw, Meltabombs, Blight Grenades
160 Huron Blackheart

115 Helbrute, Additional Power Fist, Heavy Flamer

338 18 Chaos Space Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Veterans of the Long War, Close Combat Weapon, Champion: Meltabombs, Lightning Claw
221 7 Plague Marines, 2 Plasmaguns, Champion: Powerfist
40 Chaos Rhino, Dozerblade
122 25 Chaos Cultists, 2 Flamers, Champion: Shotgun

111 3 Chaos Bikers, 2 Meltaguns, Marks of Nurgle, Veterans of the Long War

158 2 Obliterators, Mark of Nurgle, Veterans of the Long War
130 5 Havocs, 2 Autocannons, 2 Missile Launchers, Veterans of the Long War
200 Defiler, Dirge Caster

65 models
1750 points

Thnx!

Competitive and Defiler?

Don't get me wrong, the list is fine, but you're not going to win a tournament with it. The CSM codex is just so... bottom tier.

Hey Ioreweaver,

Thanks for your reply. I understand you advise to drop te Defiler in favour of something else. Could you elaborate on what you'd choose in stead of the Defiler and why?

I don't follow you in your statement that the CSM codex is bottom tier. Reading a lot of the Battlereports and Tournamentreports here on Dakka it seems that you can definately do well with a CSM list. If this list is maximised I don't know. I don't spam but tend to try and write TAC lists with varied threats that can work well together. I understand that this might make it difficult to 'win tournaments' but I do believe I could make a very tough and at least semi-competative CSM list with a TAC base and diverse content

The idea behind this list is to keep pressure on the opponent through infiltration and localised firepower. That is also why I brought the Defiler, because it seems to fit.

Things I'm not sure about is the Rhino for instance and the VotLW for the blob of CSM (since they're fearless because of Huron anyway).

Dropping both the Rhino and the VotLW I'd save 58 points. I could easily find some more points here and there and take a single Mutilator with MoN to DS and disturb the opponents backfield or add two Spawn with MoN to accompany the Chaos Lord on Bike.

Would a change like this improve the list, or should I keep the list as is?

Thanks!

Cilithan

The helbrute stands out a little. If you infiltrate 2 units, presumeably the cultists will deploy on your half of the table near an objective. That leaves the bikes to boost across the table and the helbrute to lumber across on his own; maybe ditch him and spend the points elsewhere.

I see the defiler as sitting near an objective in your deployment zone, near some troops, and lobbing battle cannons shots all over the field. I think to actively get him close to crack grenades and meltaguns (or alien equivalents) is asking for trouble and takes aways the self repair and 4HP advantage it has over other walkers. If it is filling this role you clould lose the dirge caster.

If you cut the 18CSM down to 15 ( makes them easier to use) the 25 cultists to 20 (only need 20 for the 2 flamers) get rid of the helbrute. Then suddenly you have enough points for a reasonable CSM unit to advance to capture objectives or infiltrate if you get the 3 units.

The 2 obliterators are a smilar price to 5 havocs with 4 las cannons. Something to think about?

I am actually a fan of infiltrating Noise Marines rather than standard Marines with Huron - their shooting is more devastating and 3 ignores cover shots each can be brutal.

I would then add a Sorcerer lvl 3 for my second HQ and roll on telepathy. Getting within range to puppet master, hallucinate or Invisibility your guys turn 1 can be game breaking.

I like the bikers in this list, since they can move up quickly to support the infiltrated units. I might also consider swapping out the defiler for a Heldrake.