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Hey dakka, this is papa

I am just starting a Vanilla space marines chapter (Salamanders) But Looking through it, I Was wondering Could I use The space wolves codex, as long as I have model equivalent? Because I love The look of salamanders, And not as much look of space wolves, But I dont really like the Vanilla codex.

Also: Would this be legal in a GW Tournament?

THanks! Papa

Ask the Tournament Organiser. There is no rule per se that tells you how to paint an army, but it may be frowned upon.

 Shandara wrote:
Ask the Tournament Organiser. There is no rule per se that tells you how to paint an army, but it may be frowned upon.

This. Some people are more accepting of the idea than others, so the only way to be sure is to check with your TO.

If it was me, I'd be fine with it as long as it was obvious what everything is treated as, and as long as you took the time to make sure your opponent was clear with it.

But there's no way for the Internet to answer that question, as it'd be entirely down to the TO (in tournaments) or your opponent (in friendlies). The main argument against such "counts as" armies is that if an army is already represented within the rules, then it could get confusing if you start using another army's rules instead. My suggestion would be to create your own chapter, possibly even one that is derived from the Salamanders, and make it look unique so that it can't really be confused with another set of rules.

As long as you follow "What You See Is What You Get" and make sure all of your models are equipped correctly with the war gear options you plan on using, it really doesn't matter which models you use, what colors those models are painted, or what background fluff you wish to follow.

I have a 2nd Edition Legion of the Damned army I still enjoy playing as they look awesome in their black with flames and bones motif. Yet, I cannot actually play them as "Legion of the Damned", since the only rules currently are for squads and not entire armies. So, I will and do play them as codex Marines, Space Wolves, and Blood Angels, depending on my mood. Could even play them as Chaos Marines if I so chose. The models are the same, WYSIWYG is still in place, but the unit descriptors, special rules, and points spent all come out of which ever codex I choose to play that day (they make awesome Grey Hunters, btw!).

My Sisters of Battle see very little table time these days as I just do not like their micro-Dex, yet when I do field them, I’ve fielded them as Blood Angels. Why? Because they have the same physical war gear (PA, bolters, melta, flamers, CC weapons, jump packs, Rhinos, Razorbacks “aka, Immolators”, Whirlwinds “aka, Exorcists”, Dreadnoughts “aka, Penitent Engineers”, Death Company “aka Repentia”, etc.), and they look great!

The key is, pick a theme, stick with that theme, and be up front about that theme. No one can complain that your Salamanders used Baal Predators if you inform your opponents beforehand that you are using the Blood Angels codex for you Salamander strike team. “Yep, those are Salamanders, but I’m running them as Blood Angels because that’s the best fit for my army theme. It’s all what you see is what you get, right down to the grenades. Pretty cool, hmm?”

SJ

If a TO told me I couldn't use painted/modeled Space Wolves as Salamanders even though they were WYSIWYG to SW's I'd simply not play there.

Just call it a custom chapter.

I wouldn't call them Salamanders as that would give your opponent a bit of confusion as he would assume vanilla marines rules.

As long as you are WYSIWYG it would be fine, but there could be confusion over Salamanders Counts As space wolves.

Given the potential confusion and misunderstanding that could ensure I would not be surprised if a TO didn't accept your Counts As.

WYSIWIG is all that matters.

Regarding potential "confusion" mentioned by Grey Templar, you should be handing your opponent a list of your army. That should make things perfectly clear. If for some reason the opponent can't get it through his head that the green guys are wolves, then I'd say that opponent has other issues.

The concept is good and all for something like... using a tac squad painted like salamanders and ultramarines... however a rune priest does look a specific way and there isn't another model that looks like that. Having said that, GW wants you to buy more models so it's very iffy. Any non GW tournament would often allow it as long as it stands out and looks good. As long as it doesn't just look like you get bored of playing your vanilla army and decided to switch to SWs when their dex came out.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
If a TO told me I couldn't use painted/modeled Space Wolves as Salamanders even though they were WYSIWYG to SW's I'd simply not play there.

Believe it or not, about ten years or so ago the UK Grand Tournament did have a rule that stated DIY space marines could use any codex but if your marines were painted as a specific chapter that had its own codex then you had to use that codex.

are there a lot of GW-run tournamemts anymore?

No.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
are there a lot of GW-run tournamemts anymore?

Plenty in the UK, but that wouldn't bother you much

I guess when Salamanders get their own codex, this thread will be moot. As it is, they share a codex that covers many but not all chapters, with several of those chapters not being all that great of a fit for Codex Marines. I say build your army to the codex you want to play, model them to your theme, and be up front about what it is you are doing. No one can complain when you are open and compliant to the rules of your chosen Codex.

SJ

You would be amazed at how greedy GW is... but yeah outside of a GW tournament you shouldn't have an issue as long as you make sure everything is clear to the other player.

They arn't greedy. They're greedy and stupid. They are using way outdated business and advertising practices.

fair enough