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I attempted to search the forums for the answer to this question, but was unsuccessful in finding an answer. If there is a thread that has already discussed the following question, please feel free to refer me to it rather than demeaning me for not being able to find it . Thanks!

I am a Tyranid player (many of you probably know that Tyranid players are rampant for *needing* and using as much cover as possible) and would like to know the consensus of the competitive atmosphere so I can better prepare for an upcoming tournament. In my experience, and as far as our gaming group considers, an infantry model only needs to be partially in cover to get the save...However, I am slightly confused on the MC ruling due to the 25% rule.

Here's my understanding, TMC's can be granted a cover save under the following categories:
IF your TMC is in area terrain you are granted a cover save....
IF your TMC is blocked by an intervening unit and 25% covered, you are granted a cover save***********
IF your TMC is has been granted shrouded/steath, you are granted a cover save

As far as I know these are the only ways a MC can gain cover (barring a Venomthrope).

My biggest confusion is the objectivity of the 25% rule. Do you guys play it 25% of the surface area of the MC? As in a Trygon has the majority of its "body mass" well above the base and a gargoyle screen probably does not fulfill the 25% rule IF going by **surface area**.

However, the other way that is less subjective is based on height of models. If the gargoyles that are intervening LOS, they easily fulfill the 25% of height context. Or a Termagant can grant a cover save to Warriors while Warriors grant a cover save to a Tervigon.

Lastly, I would like to confirm that if a Winged Hive Tyrant ends it's movement in cover (independent of whether or not it was swooping/zooming) it should also be granted a cover save.

Thanks ahead of time for the help.

Pg 18: Intervening models.

You don't need 25% covered with the intervening model rule.

The 25% rule will only apply with terrain, debris etc that are blocking los to your model; and being in area terrain just gives flat cover. Pg 8 helps define the model body and los

I think generally it's 25% of the surface area facing you.
So if you had a monster that was a near perfect cylinder and it was facing your tank end on so that you could only see the circular face and you could only see 25% of that circle you would get your cover save.
That being said I am not sure a squad of gargoyles can obscure enough to claim the cover save.

25% of height is a bad way to do it as walkers and any lanky models would get a greater access to saves than they should.

omerakk wrote:Pg 18: Intervening models.

You don't need 25% covered with the intervening model rule.

The 25% rule will only apply with terrain, debris etc that are blocking los to your model; and being in area terrain just gives flat cover. Pg 8 helps define the model body and los

By your explanation, a unit of Termagants that is positioned in front of a Tervigon OR Trygon OR any MC will automatically confer a 5+ cover save to the MC?

liturgies of blood wrote:I think generally it's 25% of the surface area facing you.
So if you had a monster that was a near perfect cylinder and it was facing your tank end on so that you could only see the circular face and you could only see 25% of that circle you would get your cover save.
That being said I am not sure a squad of gargoyles can obscure enough to claim the cover save.

25% of height is a bad way to do it as walkers and any lanky models would get a greater access to saves than they should.

I see your point, however, isn't "surface area" roughly speculative? It's similar to the glass half full/half empty conundrum . Because I want my MC to get a chance to save that LC shot, I am seeing > 25% covered, whereas my opponent doesn't want the MC to even have the chance to save so he/she sees < 25% covered.

By your logic, the unit of gargoyles cannot be able to grant a cover save to the MC behind it, whereas omerakk indicated that there is not 25% limitation when there's intervening models.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with either of you, I'm trying to get a straight answer/consensus so I can have evidence why one way is favored over the other.

Thanks for you replies though!

Well if you have a dispute you can roll off or ask someone else. It often happens that people call over another player or the TO for a call on the cover saves on MC's.

There is no strict way of doing it. 25% of height is speculative too. No model is a perfect cube.

By your explanation, a unit of Termagants that is positioned in front of a Tervigon OR Trygon OR any MC will automatically confer a 5+ cover save to the MC?

As long as the unit is intervening, yes, so if your gaunts are in the way of the shot, you get a cover save.

As small as termagaunts are, however, it is very easy to avoid this just by having the firing unit standing up in a building or some other terrain so they have an unobstructed los.