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Ok, so picture this scenario. My guardsmen shoot at his ork boys. Most of the boys are out of range but six of my guardsmen can reach two of his boys, also, my autocannon in the unit can reach all of his boys. Now, how many boys can i potentially kill with this round of shooting? The 2 in range from my lasguns + the 2 that can be killed by the autocannon? If so, how is this rolled? Do you separate the dice from the guns with different ranges so a maximum of two can die from the lasguns or doesnt it matter which weapon causes the deaths as long as there are a maximum of 4? Or am I totally lost here? Please help.

As long add the unit is in rangewhen you roll to hit, it is in range when rolling to wound, even of casualty removal would put it out of range.

You can kill as many boys as you can wound.

So in this perticular scenario i would be able to kill a maximum of four boys then? The two in range of the lasguns and the potential two from the autocannon?

It only measures to the unit the unit takes as many wounds as you can cause. Once you have measured for range to the unit range of weapon no longer matters.

Ok, so any guardsman that can reach any boy can potentially cause a wound, even though that might be more then the amount of boys that are actually in range?

Meh, nvm ........

you cant wound models which arent in your range or LOS. in this situation you roll everything normallyu and just make sure to do the lasgun saves first or there wounds are discarded. if i have 1 bolter in range of 12 boy i can fire 10 bolters and kill all 5. including the one behind a ruin.

That last post is wrong.

You check range before you roll to hit. Any model that has range to at least 1 enemy model can wound any model within LoS.

In the OP scenario, you would remove 1 Orc for every unsaved wound you have. It doesn't matter that some of your models were out of range. Range only matters when determining who is in range to shoot, not who can die.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Read page 16 of the rulebook. Top left.

"Out of range

As long as a model was in range of the enemy when to hit rolls are made, he is considered to be in range for the duration of the shooting attack, even if the removal of casualties means that the closest model now lies out of range"

That is very cut and dry.

destuctir wrote:
you cant wound models which arent in your range or LOS. in this situation you roll everything normallyu and just make sure to do the lasgun saves first or there wounds are discarded. if i have 1 bolter in range of 12 boy i can fire 10 bolters and kill all 5. including the one behind a ruin.

Incorrect. Reread page 16, out of range again and get your subjectbject the right way round.

If youre flat conradicting others please take the time to check sources, it is worth it to reduce confusion.

 BarBoBot wrote:
Read page 16 of the rulebook. Top left.

"Out of range

As long as a model was in range of the enemy when to hit rolls are made, he is considered to be in range for the duration of the shooting attack, even if the removal of casualties means that the closest model now lies out of range"

That is very cut and dry.

This looks very similar to my initial post, albeit without the glaring editing errors and typos.

The sentence is clear if you read it like this:

"As long as a [firing] model was in range of the enemy when To Hit rolls were made, he is considered to be in range for the duration..."

He refers to the firing model.

Lets say a unit of 10 marines with bolters shoot at a unit of orks that are not in cover.

If all 10 firing marines have range to only one model in the enemy unit they can all fire, Lets say all 10 guys cause a wound. Then the closest 10 models in the target unit die because Orks have a Sv of 6+. Even the Orks that were not in range can be killed.

This interpretation may help. Check the firing models individually, to see if they can fire, by being in range of the enemy unit as a whole. Then ignore range entirely.
In your example, 6 guardsmen and the autocannon can fire. They can then go on to wound any Ork in that unit as long as its in sight.

 DeathReaper wrote:
The sentence is clear if you read it like this:

"As long as a [firing] model was in range of the enemy when To Hit rolls were made, he is considered to be in range for the duration..."

He refers to the firing model.

Lets say a unit of 10 marines with bolters shoot at a unit of orks that are not in cover.

If all 10 firing marines have range to only one model in the enemy unit they can all fire, Lets say all 10 guys cause a wound. Then the closest 10 models in the target unit die because Orks have a Sv of 6+. Even the Orks that were not in range can be killed.

This is correct.

This even extends to template/blast weapons. If you have 2 flamers in your squad and the templates can reach 2 ork boys then you can still cause 4 wounds and remove models that aren't under any templates. It's because of the way shooting works:

1. measure ranges, determine the number of shots, who can shoot etc (after this point range is entirely irrelevant)
2. roll to hit with all weapons
3. roll to wound with all weapons (that hit)
4. remove casualties (and take armour saves)

14

How does this square with the new rulebook FAQ?
If I'm reading it right, GW have just changed their rules in an FAQ again.

40k Rulebook FAQ wrote:Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.

In other words, your 2 flamers are the only things to fire, both hitting the same 2 models for a total of 4 hits.
Doesn't this FAQ now say you can only wound the 2 models?

That's right. But if you were to fire a bolter as well then you'd be able to wound 4 models with the flamer because the extra two models are presumably in range of the bolter even if they aren't in range of the flamers.

Yep, in other words it is an incredibly stupid, clunky mess of a FAQ that in all rights should be an errata as it ENTIRELY changes the way Out of Range works.

Gah, GW!

yup, go GW! also is a squad of bolters that are all within 12 of the closest model but the farthest model is more then 12 away from all of the bolters (but within 24) what happens?

 jegsar wrote:
yup, go GW! also is a squad of bolters that are all within 12 of the closest model but the farthest model is more then 12 away from all of the bolters (but within 24) what happens?

I would assume that since you populate the pool when everyone is still standing there in range you just go with the number of hits that you have. So even if there is only one model within 12" for every one of the models with bolters you can rapid fire and keep applying wounds til you hit 24".

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 jegsar wrote:
yup, go GW! also is a squad of bolters that are all within 12 of the closest model but the farthest model is more then 12 away from all of the bolters (but within 24) what happens?

I would assume that since you populate the pool when everyone is still standing there in range you just go with the number of hits that you have. So even if there is only one model within 12" for every one of the models with bolters you can rapid fire and keep applying wounds til you hit 24".

This.

Being very specific here:
A Tac squad with 5 guys, all with regular bolters measures range. They find that 2 are within Rapid Fire (12") and 3 are not. So the squad makes 7 to hit rolls. Let's just assume all hit and wound.

The unit being shot takes saves and ALL of the models in that unit, except the ones hiding around a corner and aren't visible to the firing unit or are beyond 24" , can be wounded.

However, this brings up another question:
Let's say that same tac squad is completely within 12" of one model in the enemy unit and the rest are outside of that. They make rapid fire shots and amazingly all hit and all wound.

In this situation, how many models in the target unit can die? Is it just the 1 because that is the only one within range of the profile used for the bolter OR is it all within 24"?

This is going to be fun :(

This brings back to the explanation that you need be be careful of the order in which you allocate wounds from different weapons so your opponents take the wounds from the shortest weapons first and so on.

Actually, no it doesn't.

The FAQ says you may not allocate wounds that were not in range of ANY of the shooting models when to hit rolls are made.

If you have 1 weapon that has range to the whole squad and multiple weapons with range to only half the squad, you remove casualties from the whole squad because a shooting model had range when to hit rolls were made.

It does not specify that EACH model can't allocate wounds beyond their weapon range, it says you may allocate wounds if ANY model had range when rolling to hit.

clively wrote:
A Tac squad with 5 guys, all with regular bolters measures range.
Let's say that same tac squad is completely within 12" of one model in the enemy unit and the rest are outside of that. They make rapid fire shots and amazingly all hit and all wound.

In this situation, how many models in the target unit can die? Is it just the 1 because that is the only one within range of the profile used for the bolter OR is it all within 24"?

Firing two shots does not change the range of a rapid fire weapon.

Therefore in that situation all models within 24" can be killed.

So if you've got a lot of Flamers of Tzeentch, you might want to have one of them shoot warpfire just to let the rest of them hit the back models.

Closing this thread, as it includes information from both sides of a temporal FAQ divide.