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First off, I had a blast. Got to see friends I haven't seen in awhile and got to play some great games.

I was a bit skeptical about having no comp this year, but I guess folks in the South are a little less heavy handed in army design.

1500 Ulthwe list

Seer Coucil (4 Farseers, 3 Guide/1 Fortune Withblades, 4 naked Warlocks)

6 Scorpions w/ Exarch and powerfist

2 x 7 Black Guardians, Warlock w/ Destructor

3 x 6 Guardians, Starcannon + crew

Wraithlord w/ Brightlance

2x Falcon, Holofield, Spirit Stones (one w/ 2 Shur Cannon, 1 w/ Shuriken Cannon/Starcannon

 

 

 

Game 1 vs. Raven Guard/Mission Gamma Recon. Thomas was a great guy to play and had a beautiful army. We played on the chaos board and agreed the 4 pieces of terrain should be treated like woods. Otherwise, not a single piece of terrain blocked LOS. We wanted a fun game, so the decision was made.

His big thing with this army was 6 Land Speeders. He got first turn and took it to me. By turn 2, my Seer Council ran off the board, but my Guardian squads held (go figure). He had 3 scoring units at the objective. My real aces this game were my two Falcons. His best result all game was one weapon destroyed. The first 3 turns he just pounded me while I'd stun a Landspeeder, or blow off a weapon. My Seer Council and 3 Starcannon squads were gone.

Turn 4, I was finally seeing some daylight. After the Chapliain w/ Assault Squad charged my Wraithlord and killing it (Furious Charge), he got a real low roll for massacre.  Black Guardians shot them up (w/ Destructor) and my Scorpions came in for assault, kiling them by turn 5.

With this, I began hiding my units close to the objective while the Falcons tried to snipe the Speeders.

By the bottom of turn 6, he had 2 Scout squads, a Marine squad and 2 Speeders arount the objective. I moved a Black Guardian squad in, my Scorps and both Falcons came in tank shocking one scout unit off the objective. Another Scout unit got whittled down below 50% by Guardian/Scorpion fire.

In the end, I secured a tie with. One of my Scorps was barely out of range of the objective, so no points. Had I gotten an extra inch, I would have won. We tied.

 

 

 

I'll just step in before you finish and give you props for not taking a starcannon one one of those falcons, and only having two. Good game dude

Game 2 vs. Ulthwe (Matt)/Mission Omega Secure and Control.  He had a small Seer Council with a mix of powers, but nothing that really gave any focus for his army. Also, at nearly 300 points, it was too much to not be useful.

He had two Waveserpents, Vyper and Wraithlord waiting in reserve. On the table were 2 big Black Guardian squads w/ Conceal and Brightlances and his Seer Council.

He opted for first turn and could roll high enough to see any of my units, but he moved everything. I then shot and killed a few Guardians and a couple Warlocks.

Next turn all his stuff comes on but he only kills a couple Guardians. I end up killing more of his Seer Council (by Guiding all Starcannon squads and making LD checks to target them instead of the Guardians) His Seer Council breaks and runs off the table.

By this point, it became a turkey shoot and I ended up with all 4 objective counters and killing every model he had.

Massacre.

Apparently, this was the round the judges went checking  armies and Theme. I thought they checked mine at the end of game 1 when the judge wanted to see my list and background. I guess this didn't get recorded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Game 3 vs. Vanilla Marines (Richard) Omega Recon.

I wanted to go 1-1-1 this tourney as I hadn't playtested this list, don't normally play 1500 points and took a fairly tooled down list in a no comp enviornment. So far, I'm 1-0-1, so I already met my expectations.

Rich's army was painted like a Dark Angels successor chapter (bone colored armor), but went Vanilla and took the true grit trait and no allies disadvantage. He also had a Librarian (yuck) , Techmarine w/ 4 Servitors (3 w/ Hvy Bolter, 1 Plasma Cannon),3 Speeders and 2 Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods. Oh yeah, there were 2 large tactical squads and a large dev squad (2 Plasma, 2 Missile Launchers). Rich, are you sure this isn't Dark Angels in disguise?

He got first turn and rolled very well for night fight. Both Black Guardian Squads were crippled. He didn't fire his dev squad as he wanted them intact as I had 3 star cannon squads across from them.

I had to forgoe the mission and play defensive. He had 3 Speeders and 2 Dreads deep striking so I couldn't rush forward and space my army too far apart. This actually worked.  His dreads and speeders didn't last after the turn they arrived typically and I lost little in return. He came down piecemeal and tried to kill my Seer Council; one turn I had Fortune up, another turn I didn't. However, each turn I counter assaulted them with Witchblades, dispatching the dreads.

His big trade off was having a Librarian vs. Force Commander. While I couldn't be too bold with the Seer Council b/c of having Fortune cancelled a lot, he also had 3 units fall back as there was no across the board LD10.

He did get a single lascannon shot off against my first arriving Falcon and rolled double 6's on the Glancing Chart. First Falcon I lost all day.

In the end, neither of us got extra points for Recon. He had half his Techmarine Squad, 2 guys in a Tac squad and his Librarian. I had 2 Farseers left (worth half vps) 2 Guardian squads and an undamaged Falcon. I may have had another Guardian squad somewhere.

After adding points and double checking, I got a Solid Victory. Marines are just plain expensive point wise. His dreads and speeders didn't do enough for him, but were easy vp's for me.

So, I went 2-0-1 with my Ulthwe and placed 10th Overall (out of 60). I didn't receive the +4 points for theme, which would have given me an 8th or 9th overall position- nothing to worry about. I got to play 3 fun players and see some really nice armies.

Maybe it's just the South, but the no comp enviornment had very little bearing on what people brought to this RTT. However, be aware the RTT tables are a bit sparse on terrain. Shooty armies can absolutely dominate.

There was one unfortunate event where a guy brought a 6 Venerable Dreadnought army.  The judges ruled it was an illegal list after round 1 and his massacre win turned into a massacre loss. Otherwise, I saw no issues with armies or rules arguements. A lot of folks came to play fun games and that's what we got.

 

 

 

 

It sounds like you did really well and had a great time. Is it normal, though, for RTT's down there to have such sparse terrain on the tables? In the RTT North Carolina thread there are pictures of the tables, and you're right, a shooty army would dominate. With what I saw from the pictures of the table in the last game , it hardly paid the Tyranid player to bother setting his army up.
There is absolutly no cover to speak of in that game, and all a player with a shooty army had to do to win was stand there and roll dice.

Up here they use a lot more cover in the RTT's and it evens out the playing field between shooty and HtH armies.

Do people in your area mainly run shooty armies and it's not that big of an advantage if there's not much terrain?

Apples and oranges. This was the Games Day Atlanta RTT, which is put on by GW. These were pretty barren tables. GW is hosting 3 other RTT's (I believe) and a GT this year. I'm assuming they are using the same tables for all these tourneys (speculation).

I live in Fayetteville, NC and locally we use more terrain for RTT's. I can't speak for other areas as I suppose it's up to the organizer and who brings in terrain for tables if the shop is a bit sparse.

I was the screwed individual with the 6 Dreads. Despite asking before I came by e-mail, and asking when I got there before play started, the list was still canned for the 1st game... but only the 1st. If it was illegal, why weren't ALL my games zeroed? And why wasn't I told? I played all day with not a whiff of a problem until the last minute. I brought an entirely different Marine army with me, in case they disagreed on-site with the GW event coordinator's ruling, and told them that I could and would change armies freely. I could have changed them out, and barring that, if they'd told me they were going to screw me, I could have spent my day doing someting else with my now-wasted $40 Games Day ticket.

I agree with the problems with terrain. This was a very shooty-friendly environment, and very hard on assault-based armies. The terrain we had was pretty and well-done, no doubt; there just was nowhere near enough of it.

You're right. You should have been zero'ed for all 3 games.

What were you thinking? How could you have thought that was legal?

The consistency is an issue I'm taking up with GW.

Lemme show you this:
==================================
As far as I know they can also be Venerable. Since the 0-1 limit is
removed, you should be fine.

Jeff Hall
Events Coordinator
GWUS
410-689-2367 (desk)

> ----------
> From: Jason Francis
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 1:52 AM
> To: GW Tournaments
> Subject: Question regarding Games Day Atlanta 40K Tournament
>
> I'm planning on bringing a Space Marine army, based around the Heed
the Wisdom of the Ancients trait. I've heard different opinions, and I
want to make sure I'm using the appropriate interpretation, for the
tournament, of the trait for the army list I'm making up. If you take
Dreadnoughts as Heavy Support, can they be Venerable? It says Elite
Dreads must be Venerable, and that the 0-1 limit is removed, but nothing one
way or another about the Heavy Support Dreads.
>
> Thanks for your attention.
>
> Jason Francis
==================================

Now, when the GW Events Coordinator says it's OK a week before, and the staff on site says it's OK when you arrive, what are you supposed to think? And again, I was willing to PLAY SOMETHING ELSE if it wasn't OK.

I wanted to post this message for the guy who played the 6 Venerable Dreads.



I will be the one to tell everyone that I was the Head Judge at this years Atlanta GD. When I received the army list at 8am the morning of the RTT. I looked it over and asked several other GW employees. They stated that they are not sure if it was legal or not. I then walked back to Diamondback and told him and I quote my own words. "After asking several people, I think it is legal, BUT DO NOT QUOTE ME! If you have any doubts. Switch your list."

I then let Diamondback head in to setup while I finished registering people to the tournament. Once the tournament began, we noticed that there was a problem with 3 things. 1: the printer was jamming. 2: We had no Result Sheets to pass out to the players (I love it when they don't give us all the tools.) 3: There were players still coming in and we needed to get them registered and setup and going for the first round.

With all these problems, we ended up running an hour behind because we had to manually make the result sheets for each table and teach the players how to use them.

While I had my head buried in the computer putting people's names in the database and trying to put scores in. Someone came over and asked Steve and Ken, the other judges (sorry I do not know their last names. but they do work for GW at the Atlanta store. You can call them if you would like) about the 6 Venerable Dreads. Steve and Ken went and took a look at your roster while break was going on. They came back to me 15 minutes later and told me to change the score from your table since you had an illegal army list. I changed the score and proceeded to continue trying to catch us back up because there was no way we were allowed to go over 5pm.

From the on line rules of this tournament and I quote "Competitors are advised that from the moment of entry into the even the decisions of all Judges, Referees and members of Games Workshop staff regarding the fair adjudication of the Tournament rules, and all issues of health and safety, are final. No discussions will be entered into once a decision is taken. This applies to rules adjudications, the scores applied for an category of the Tournament and any Issues that require the co-operation of the competitors."

I also Quote another part of the rules "Rosters will be randomly selected throughout the weekend and
checked during the Tournament. If any mistakes are found, the results
of all games in which the player has used the illegal list will
immediately be changed to Massacres in favor of their opponents.
This will apply even if the mistake is honest, so please double-check
your roster before the Tournament."

I gave you the benefit of doubt and only changed one score. If I wanted to I could have gave you all zeros. It is not our job to notify you that you lost points. If you had doubts on that army list, you should of played with your back up list.

I was being kind by not going over to the computer when you were yelling at me and changing all your scores to a zero. Your lesson has been learned. If you have any doubts about playing a army list....DO NOT PLAY IT.

I also spoke with Jeff Hall After Games Day was over about the event. He said that the rule is not clearly marked but it is a illegal army and the right thing was taken. He also stated that he would past this information to the rules boyz and get a clarification on this rule in a upcoming issue of WD.

Like it mattered if you zeroed my scores?

so please double-check
your roster before the Tournament.

And asking YOUR BOSS beforehand isn't checking?

And you said nothing about not quoting you; you said "You're fine."  I have witnesses, so don't try and change things after-the-fact.

At this point, you're just making a jackazz out of yourself.

Any idiot can see that the list is illegal. You aren't doing yourself any favors arguing otherwise.

Like I posted. It isn't my job to notify you about your army list. It is your job to make sure it is legal. It wasn't so you lost points. If I wanted to be mean, I could of gave you zeros for all 3 rounds but I didn't. Next time triple check your list. And by triple check, I mean don't ask friends, LOOK in the rule book. Venerable Dreads are Elites only. Therefore you can not have 6 of them. It is now considered the past. Drop it, make a new list. Come back next year and win a trophy.

I've said it elsewhere, but that location isn't quite as public as Dakka, so I'm repeating it here.

I apologise to everyone exposed to or involved in my outburst at Games Day. It was rude, uncivil, and uncalled for. After all, it's just a game. There were aggravating factors, but they aren't excuses. I hope that the people I insulted and disturbed will accept my apology, and I promise to keep a more even keel in the future. After all, I've got an excellent "learning experience" under my belt to remind me.

I won't delete what I said before; that'd be selfishly covering my tracks. Maybe someone will think twice about being a azz like me if they read them.

My apologies to you as well, I'm a jackazz for saying it was illegal. It looks legal to me now that I open the book.

And very cool that you've moved on.

If I wanted to be mean, I could of gave you zeros for all 3 rounds but I didn't

You know, you're coming across with a high-and-mighty attitude is pissing me off. Sure you could have done that if you wanted to be mean.

You know what you could have done if you wanted to be, you know, competent? Given the kid the correct answer (yes six venerable dreads is legal) or barring that, a definitive answer (you know, make a judgement like, erm, judges are supposed to do) when he contacted you guys to find out whether his list was legal or not. Instead it sounds like you wishy-washed on the answer (well it sounds like it's OK...) and then when you did make a ruling it was (shock! gasp!) wrong. But that's OK because at least you weren't mean!

It sounds like he was disruptive at the tournament - but that's no excuse! The guy paid 40 dollars, what'd he pay that for? The honor of playing your game? When people pay money to play it's perfectly reasonable for them to expect that the judges are going to do a proper job. From what's been said it's pretty clear that didn't happen.

Guys, just drop it. It doesn't matter anymore, and hopefully, we'll get some clearer rules out of it.