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Hello everyone bloodravenish here;
I've constantly played in in tournaments whether it's 40k or warmachine and most of the time (40k anyways ) I've been in contention for the top spot so here's the question where do you draw the line from competitive gamer and sportsman thought out a game. usually I've found it intense playing on a top table and clashes of personalities of me wanting to be competitive but not wanting at the same time being to complete dick to whom ever random person . for instance someone forgetting to shoot something or giving them a ruling in there favor (not my fault right?) . so I guess share stories and your opinion on the whole subject

Its the same thing I say at every tournament. We are a bunch of grown men pushing around little plastic army dudes on a table, rolling dice, and yelling at each other. If its that important you win this game, go ahead. Ill go home to my wife and get laid tonight, you not so much...

Ref the good advice of Jesse Owens.

"In the end, it’s extra effort that separates a winner from second place. But winning takes a lot more that that, too. It starts with complete command of the fundamentals. Then it takes desire, determination, discipline, and self­sacrifice. And finally, it takes a great deal of love, fairness and respect for your fellow man. Put all these together, and even if you don’t win, how can you lose?"

If you abandon love, fairness and respect for your fellow man en route to taking first place at a miniatures tournament ... I don't think you or anyone else can count you a winner.


We all screw up on occasion, get a little too competitive or hinky in the heat of the moment, somewhere in life ... whether it's on the job, or in a silly game, or whatever. When we do, I think most well-raised folks feel wrong about it afterward, and seek to somehow apologize/amend/whatever. Taking it a step further to intentionally trying to push the boundaries of good form if you can get away with it ... that seems to be the abandonment of self-respect, and I can't imagine it would be good to draw your line past that point.

The prizes, even at the biggest events, aren't really sufficient to replace the abandonment of self-respect.

I just punch people in the face and declare myself the winner! (Kidding, I hit like a girl!)

But seriously no prize being given out in our hobby is worth acting like a dick for. I treat others as I expect to be treated and let them set the tempo as far as strictness goes. Sometimes going so far as to have a discussion about it pre-game. But in the end, i'm somewhere taking time to play little toy soldiers with other geeks. I want me and my opponents to have a good time.

If I feel myself starting to slip (generally due more to a personality clash than getting hyper competitive) I take a step back, breathe, and remind myself I'm rolling dice and that not everyone loves me. It generally works (even if it makes me sad to know not everyone loves me )

There's a difference between being a d*ck and advocating for yourself. As MVB has said, most folks will take a moment when they realize (or have it pointed out) that they're starting to loosen up in the heat of the moment. The reality is that some folks, sadly, will not. And it's completely up to you to ensure they do not take advantage of you.

The door swings both ways though, and there's no call for poor behavior when standing up for oneself, either.

It's stuff like this, though, that always makes me chuckle when I listen to people talk about "socially inept gamers"... playing a tournament miniatures game against someone, particularly at a high competitive level or a top table, is probably one of the most complicated and delicate social interactions you can attempt.

That's why I went to warhammer etiquette school!

I have to say that most larger events are already aware of most major 'potholes' in the rule and which items are unclear... So I find being super familiar with the event FAQ helps as people may argue a point which was already addressed. being able to point to the FAQ keeps things moving.

The thing that crosses the line to me is people who know what they are doing is wrong but base an army around it and have short term memory loss where they 'correct' themselves for your game but next game are back to the way they want it to work. That is gamesmanship which often is a bad thing.

Last NOVA there was an argument at a table next to me about vertical firing arcs on flyers and a player was basically assuming (and playing) as if necron flyers could shoot straight down at a 90 degree angle. After a heated argument, it was clear it didn't work that way so the came continued. Since you end up near people of similar record, later the same player in a later game was back to shooting directly down with his flyers... and his opponent did not say anything mostly out of ignorance and just assumed it was ok.

That IMHO crosses the line. You don't have to like it, but re-ignoring a ruling and needing someone to call you out every game or else you will exploit the advantageous ruling 'sucks'. Making a mistake, and then correcting it once you learn how it works is good sportsmanship.

thorough experience I've found that there time for both usually more lean with rule's once I've lost my first game I'm more casual , but sometimes the worst experience's I've had is when I try correct something that person's doing because that person is wrong and there persist that there correct that or a player trying to constantly trying to cheat(cough cough dis) or loop whole that's usually where the gloves come off but I understand that at the end of the day this a game and not to be taking thing to seriously

Ish, you played a douche. I know the guy is a douche. A bunch of us know. You knew he was a douche, yet you handled things well. I don't think the line you have to draw, (or did draw last tourney) is any different that what you actually did. You kept him to playing an honest game. ... and didn't lose the game! Props for that.

For those reading the thread, I won't "out" the guy, that is name him; I heard he's vindictive enough to let the air out of tires. Still, if our local scene needed a face for TFG, it'd be his mugshot.

I have wanted to tell him that he cheats (for a couple years now), and is a loser for doing so with plastic space men, etc. But I have wussed out on the couple occasions he shows up for games. I guess I've been loosing my anger edge that I'd honed earlier last decade.

What's good though, is that he only shows up maybe once a year. I can't remember him showing up all the year before when I was running DE. And heck, maybe he's improved ... by degrees? Maybe not.

I think tourney players run the gamut of humanity like any other group, a couple great guys, a majority of okay guys, and then a turd or two.

I got to look at/experience/teach/hang out with 30+ groups of Middle School kids for a decade. Now, I get to look at the bell-shaped curve of humanity in 4th grade slices/flavors.

It's all the same. I'll have 2 to 3 great students, 18 or so of varying degrees of cool to meh, to annoying. And then there will be the 2 or 3 turkeys I'd like to see go away. But they still need to be dealt with. Same with large employee staffs, extended families, your wife's circle of friends ...

So, TFG will prolly be across the table again for you, since you're good and finish tourneys well. He'll know that you're a tough, fair, opponent who won't let him get away with anything. And you'll handle it even better next time. Prolly beating him. You'll hold the same line you did last time. It'll be good enough.

OR you could be like me: Lose your games to stay in the kiddie pool.



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Oh, and goddamnit, throw in some capital letters and periods. Make it look like LAUSD made you earn your HS diploma.

Some games seem to be a never-ending trip to a rule book and a lot of throwing up your hands saying that you don't care any more. The problem with it is that instead of a decent game with someone who is VERY good (top table ect), you get a game that leaves a bad taste afterword.

That sucks when it happens. Beer helps though

war wrote:
Beer helps though

Is that a quote from Homer Simpson?

if only I was of age

 MikeFox wrote:
Its the same thing I say at every tournament. We are a bunch of grown men pushing around little plastic army dudes on a table, rolling dice, and yelling at each other. If its that important you win this game, go ahead. Ill go home to my wife and get laid tonight, you not so much...

This is so true, but you know some of these "men with toys" only have toys to play with... and in occasional hairy palm as well. Add the lack of social interaction and personal hygiene and there you have it "The Gamer". Personally, doing the horizontal mamba is way up there in my list of things in life to do.

@adam Yes the should be an emergency gamer kit that has axe and disinfectants