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MrMoustaffa wrote: Alright so I got impatient and edited my battlescribe roster files myself. I'm sure there's still some errors but here's my first stab at a pure Metalica list. If it wasn't for the destroyers or wanting to run 3 Onagers you can actually turn this into a triple Battalion list super easy, I just lack the HQ models I need and a squad of plasma vanguard. There would also be merit to potentially a Brigade/Battalion list, since servitors can fill in the elite slot and you want them anyways, and in fast attack you could take a couple of autocannon ballistarii to deal with light vehicles that the Kastelans don't really have time to fool with.
Seems like it'd be fun. Would start the game with 9 CP and with a little re configuring you could easily get it to 14 cp to start. Would be a crazy aggressive shooting list with a token amount of melee mixed in just to make sure you didn't get yourself in too much trouble.
The triple battalion list if you were curious used Arquebus Ranger squads as cheap but useful troops to fill out the third detachment. They're 65pts a pop (72 with the omnispex which seems like it has merit now) and I can't think of a single list where they're not going to be dangerous for something the opponent has. Spread them out in the backfield to deny deepstriking since the rest of your army wants to advance and call it a day. I'll need to play around with both and see which I like more.
Out of curiousity why the phosphoonix as the extra CP Relic?
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
I'm just used to taking it. It's helped me quite a bit in pinging the last guy or two out of a squad, especially stuff like rangers. Since I'm metallica, I can also advance and still fire on 2's, so I usually just treat it as our actual relic instead of the stupid arm
I could see an argument for not including it, especially with CP being tight in this list.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
MrMoustaffa wrote: I'm just used to taking it. It's helped me quite a bit in pinging the last guy or two out of a squad, especially stuff like rangers. Since I'm metallica, I can also advance and still fire on 2's, so I usually just treat it as our actual relic instead of the stupid arm
I could see an argument for not including it, especially with CP being tight in this list.
I like playing with the Phosphoenix too, it really does feel like it doubles the anti-infantry firepower of a Dominus. Shooting all those nasty T4 and T5 units trying to get into melee with you with 6 shots that wound on 3+ or 4+, with 3 16% changes to deal a mortal wound and 3 shots having AP -3 out to 18" from what looks like a pistol is a pretty nasty surprise for most players. Probably one of the best non-Knight/Custodes weapon relics in the game. It's essentially a sawed-off, massively souped up heavy bolter with cover ignoring AP-3 rounds.
Getting Arkhan's pimp stick is pretty much a must, but I rarely have a game where I feel that paying that one extra command point for almost doubling the firepower of my Dominus for an entire game isn't a good investment.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/12/09 03:00:40
Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer
MrMoustaffa wrote: Alright so I got impatient and edited my battlescribe roster files myself. I'm sure there's still some errors but here's my first stab at a pure Metalica list. If it wasn't for the destroyers or wanting to run 3 Onagers you can actually turn this into a triple Battalion list super easy, I just lack the HQ models I need and a squad of plasma vanguard. There would also be merit to potentially a Brigade/Battalion list, since servitors can fill in the elite slot and you want them anyways, and in fast attack you could take a couple of autocannon ballistarii to deal with light vehicles that the Kastelans don't really have time to fool with.
Seems like it'd be fun. Would start the game with 9 CP and with a little re configuring you could easily get it to 14 cp to start. Would be a crazy aggressive shooting list with a token amount of melee mixed in just to make sure you didn't get yourself in too much trouble.
The triple battalion list if you were curious used Arquebus Ranger squads as cheap but useful troops to fill out the third detachment. They're 65pts a pop (72 with the omnispex which seems like it has merit now) and I can't think of a single list where they're not going to be dangerous for something the opponent has. Spread them out in the backfield to deny deepstriking since the rest of your army wants to advance and call it a day. I'll need to play around with both and see which I like more.
I like this list, though the uneaven squads of 9 and 8 are killing me to tell you the truth. Honestly, I prefer running bare naked squads of 10 vanguard with omnispex and calling it a day. The radium carbines are pretty good in terms of a standard weapon, and the fact there is 30 shots going out at a time is good for a chaff unit. Other than that, I like the list a lot! gives you plenty of Cp's for devastating firepower!
So did the -1 to hit become a +1 to cover save? Because if not, I would still take double Mars detachments.
My only real disappointment is that they didn't really give us any good relics, again. I mean, I would have much preferred that the Servo-Skull allow us to IMMEDIATELY change Battle Protocols instead of just giving the effect 3" more range. Still, can't look a gift horse in the mouth. That 2187 point list I posted in anticipation of these changes became 1993... which is crazy.
After taking everything in, it seems for the first time that we can run pure AdMech. Or at least with only Guard or BA as an ally.
Metallica plasma callivers are just too good for me to let go of. I absolutely agree if it was any other FW but with Metallica you gotta take what you can get, and 6+d6 movement guys rocking plasma with rerolls and potentially able to hit on 1+'s is too good to pass up. Every time I leave the plasma at home I regret it. If you leave the vanguard barebones most of the time they don't do a whole lot unless you run into someone running orks or IG. With the plasma they're an actual threat which is good, I want them to draw fire most of the time. And when there's Destroyers, Kastelan, Dragoons, and Onagers running around you really don't want to put fire into them in my experience. I've been running them this way since 500pts in a league I'm in and they've done a lot of work every game since. In that I've had knights and Onagers as support and there's been times where a vanguard squad took some AT weapons to the face that could've gone to a more important target just because that plasma was too close for comfort. They still die somewhat easily don't get me wrong, but I find shroudpsalm usually keeps them alive long enough to do their job.
That said, pure vanguard riflemen would let you have a lot more guys, I just like my squads being flexible and since the plasma is only one less shot I found their anti horde doesn't really suffer and the added utility is worth it. As for why they're not 10 man squads I don't have the models or the points. The few times I've run a 10 man squad my opponent absolutely Annhilator them because I only had a couple. They'd seen what an 8 man squad with 2 could do and they weren't about to let a 10 man unit with 3 get away Scott free
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
MrMoustaffa wrote: Metallica plasma callivers are just too good for me to let go of. I absolutely agree if it was any other FW but with Metallica you gotta take what you can get, and 6+d6 movement guys rocking plasma with rerolls and potentially able to hit on 1+'s is too good to pass up. Every time I leave the plasma at home I regret it. If you leave the vanguard barebones most of the time they don't do a whole lot unless you run into someone running orks or IG. With the plasma they're an actual threat which is good, I want them to draw fire most of the time. And when there's Destroyers, Kastelan, Dragoons, and Onagers running around you really don't want to put fire into them in my experience. I've been running them this way since 500pts in a league I'm in and they've done a lot of work every game since. In that I've had knights and Onagers as support and there's been times where a vanguard squad took some AT weapons to the face that could've gone to a more important target just because that plasma was too close for comfort. They still die somewhat easily don't get me wrong, but I find shroudpsalm usually keeps them alive long enough to do their job.
That said, pure vanguard riflemen would let you have a lot more guys, I just like my squads being flexible and since the plasma is only one less shot I found their anti horde doesn't really suffer and the added utility is worth it. As for why they're not 10 man squads I don't have the models or the points. The few times I've run a 10 man squad my opponent absolutely Annhilator them because I only had a couple. They'd seen what an 8 man squad with 2 could do and they weren't about to let a 10 man unit with 3 get away Scott free
Fair enough! I am speaking as a lucius player who can deliver plasma where he wants unmolested, so I get what you are saying for the infantry. I personally found the intense dakka dakka of the vanguard to be good enough when combined with my armie's fire, and since I made so many of them from 7th edition I can run at least 2 squads of vanguard comfortably without any upgrades aside from the omni-spex, and at least one squad of rangers and breachers alongside them to act as defense for my big guns. maybe I should make more plasma guns some day to test out more toys over bois, but I accept your explanation!
For the record, here's the list that has served me very well so far, even if the crusader is a newer addition. My other list used an errant pre imperial knight codex, but I just like dakka so much more than a thermal and chainsword
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The Master of Bioslicing combos right into the Appri Strategem. You knock out the last dude in a squad, bring back one in another squad, and finally use your CP to bring back the dead squad?
The unit still has to have 1 model remaining to use Fresh Converts.
Arlen wrote: If CC hordes become to much of a problem, I think metallica would be a grand solution to make sure our gunlines keep working. Additionally I just might sneak in a Hawkshroud Valiant into my list for that fantastic overwatch strat.
How cool is it to see orks charging your skitarii gunline and suddenly a knight with a flamethrower the size of a flat steps in and roasts them all.
Is it weird that I'm planning on mostly keeping my Kastelan in aegis mode and sprinting around the table? Lots of my opponents are things like eldar or Raven guard so they tend to be slippery and hide. The traditional play of slapping them in doubletap mode and breaking their legs just doesn't cut it for me much. With Metallica I can potentially move them 14" a turn to get them inside the -1 range and light them up.
With the new robot formation, my Metallica bots can sprint around being super aggressive up the midfield. I can keep the Dominus easily within 9" if I feel the need to shunt them into double tap mode and provide reroll 1's, as well as potentially run two 3 strong units of kataphrons that are spread out a bit to give me the option of an elimination volley. With 3-4 bots that I'm planning on running, they'll be hell to remove, and if you charge them big whoop, I'll just fall back my turn and shoot you again if played right. I also have a Valhallans guard army that would pair extremely well with this since their infantry can fire into friendly combat, giving me options to break robots out of tri locking if need be.
Even if I run pure Metallica though, between neutron Onagers, vastly improved destoryers, super mobile tanky Kastelan, and very aggressive plasma vanguard, I think I can make a super aggressive shooting army with some assault splashed in and have a blast. Once battlescribe has the points updated I can really start to play around with what a pure list would look like but I think I can make something really fun that would work, potentially even a triple batallion since you'll want a Dominus for both the formations and being able to spread the rerolls around let's you be more flexible with canticles. There's just so many options opened up now that I really feel like I can make an army that actually does what we're supposed to now. Heck I may even be able to finally use my infiltrators without feeling like an idiot now
I love your idea of Valhallans shooting into CC to free up units, i usually run my tech-thralls, i mean guardsmen.. as tallarn. This may work well on the cheaper veteran squads now, arm them with flamers, plasmas or grenade launchers and stay as the rear guard freeing up key units that have been locked up.
Oh.
Kill the second to last model then. Point still stands that it's gimmicky but funny.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
I was considering Dragoons for the Ryza detachment, but eh, no need to go through the trouble of making charges when you can just shoot from behind a horde of infantry.
Arquebuses are also a decent option now, but I could not find the points to fit them in.
Anyhow, this means I need to paint some Servitors and dust off my Kataphrons.
EDIT: I just had a brilliant idea and made that Maniple a Mechanicus Soup detachment. Ryza dogma is useless, so you're only in it for the stratagems. Plus, the Enginseer is now Mars and can help repair the vehicles in the Spearhead.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/12/09 10:50:09
Suzuteo wrote: So did the -1 to hit become a +1 to cover save? Because if not, I would still take double Mars detachments.
It's still -1 to hit.
Oh good.
I think the biggest winners that came out of this were Kataphrons and Crawlers.
The stratagem stacking on Kataphrons is abusive. I mean, seriously, +1 to hit, to wound, and damage for even non-OC plasma is pretty nuts. And let's not forget the +1 to hit for the Phosphor Blaster, which clears chaff rather well. The fact that they can move and shoot without penalty, benefit from 5++, and have access to reliable repair and resurrect also makes them very durable for a T5 W3 troop choice. Paired with Kastelans, and you pretty much can kill one and a half Knights per turn.
Icarus Crawlers were already amazingly efficient for the meta we're in. Making them 15% cheaper is not something I wished for, but I am totally going to take advantage of. They already shut down Tau and Eldar super hard. Having 2-3 seems almost mandatory.
In terms of the army design, it seems like we're definitely going to take both specialist detachments (nothing says we can't, it seems?). For pure AdMech, Ryza Maniple Battalion, Mars Cohort Spearhead, and a barebone Mars Battalion. That or a Ryza Maniple Brigade (Dragoons can actually use that fight reroll) and Mars Cohort Spearhead, maybe with an Assassin Auxiliary. For a more soupy build, Ryza Maniple Battalion, Mars Cohort Spearhead, and Catachan Battalion. You can also do the Artillery Company... but that might not be a popular discussion at the moment. Haha. Still also weighing the Emperor's Conclave detachment; maybe take a Platoon Commander for the Litanies of the Holy Sword relic; if he dies, he gives a nearby unit +1 attack and fearless.
I dislike running two Forge Worlds in lists like that mostly because the enginseers are wasted, since they can’t repair Kataphrons (not vehicles) or the Onagers and Kastelans (not the same FW), but now that Enginseers are 30 points total them being a useless slot-filler isn’t so painful.
I am really liking building Ironstriders into Cawl Castles now, given how much cheaper they are at last. But I’m torn. At least against threats like first-turn-charge Genstealer hordes, I think it might be better to ditch Cawl and use Graia in a Robot specialist detachment for the CC shooting to repel them, and then go infantry-heavy to make full use of the trait. Could even use that strat the first turn or two and move the Kastelans with a horde of Corpuscarii and then squat in the middle of the map shooting everything to bits. Could skip using the strategem to switch modes that way too, since you would know in advance which turn you wanted the switch instead of just wanting it ASAP.
Another option that is interesting: since the Maniple skills are tied to the model name and not Forge World, you can do a Mechanicus Soup detachment instead, which sacrifices the mostly useless Ryza dogma to gain access to the Graia stratagem, as well as allow the Enginseers to repair Mars.
EDIT: In fact, I am going to do just this. It's actually really clever. (Pat myself on the back.)
The problem with Ironstriders now is that they have too many things competing with them in the shooting role. I mean, +1 to wound rolls is essentially doubling strength minus one... so OC Plasma is S15. Competing with Autocannons (which seem to be the more appealing of the two now in terms of role) are the incredibly affordable Icarus Crawlers, not to mention Kastelans and even Helverins.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/12/09 10:57:39
Thing is, with the Ork codex and the upcoming GSC codex, my gut tells me Horde will come back in the meta at full strength. I'm already more wary of hordes than Knights to be honest, only one player plays full Knights in my meta, and the 1850 pts tournament I'm going to in February counts 7 T'au lists so far, being more than double than the second most used faction. I'm glad the Icarus got cheaper because I feel like I'm going to need it.
But horde-sweeping is something we can do well, Robots, Vanguards, Infiltrators with tasers, Grav-Destroyers. Might I suggest to think about using the Incendine Combustor on Robots if you're going to play them mobile ? 12" S5 AP-1 flamers are nice and make for a meaner Overwatch. If you're not using Strafing Run it still hits without penalty, and double-shooting with those will be quite scary.
I still maintain Agripinaa to be better for durability concerning 6 Destroyers, because of Fresh Converts and Servitor Maniple. You can fix 'em, res 'em and if there's too many casualties or you run of of Servitors bring them all back for 3CP. Oh and give them a 5++ first for added survivability.
All these mobility options are great because I'm always uncomfortable having a big Bots castle who can't move. Still, I think I'm going to play that at the tournament because I'm unsure if Vigilus will be authorized. After all it got cheaper by 90 pts if playing Cawl, Bots and 2 Onagers (tournament restrictions) and even more when including the 3 Destroyers, which I will do. In fact, here's the list I was thinking about if I could have your tournament players' wisdom guys (sorry for the layout I'm copying it from Word basically):
Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment (Mars) +5 CP: - Dominus, Volkite + Macrostubber, Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land - Warlord (Necromechanic)
- Belisarius Cawl
The reason I went full Mars is to allow the Enginseer to fix the Vehicles. If I did the Spearhead with Cawl and say a Stygies Battalion my Enginseer would be useless. And for ease of play for me and my opponent, as well as full rerolls from Cawl, I prefer this way.
The plan is simple: castle up with the Bots in tight formation, with maybe the Destroyers in front, screen them all with the line of Dragoons, Vanguards and Arc rifles Rangers. Onagers on the side together for rerolling 1s for the Invulnerable save and +1 Ld to Skitarii, and Cawl somewhere in the middle to buff them all. The snipers form a chain to benefit from Cawl but are otherwise in a nice spot to pick enemy Characters. The Dominus repairs the Onagers in priority, while the Datasmith and Enginseer try to fix the Bots. Infiltrators could start on the table but I believe they'd be better DSing turn 2 to catch an objective or something.
Elimination Volley + Double shots from the WoM Bots + Cawl should be devastating in a 36" bubble. 13 Deployments looks average to have the +1 for first turn but I have no idea honestly.
Kastelan Robots [30 PL, 550pts] . Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 145pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber
. Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser
Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 145pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber
. Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser
@Suzuteo:
You can indeed take booth specialist detachments, but they have to be applied an two seperate detachments.
I actually really like the idea of Ryza Dragoons. You can use them as a screen and having reroll hits and wounds of 1 makes them pretty nasty in CQC. They also make a good distraction from your other valuable assets.
@Pomguo:
Good point on the Enginseers. I wasn´t even aware of this tbh.
@Idealweasel:
I would try to make it a Brigade if i were you
So is Ryza a must for Kataphrons or can we make them work in other Forgeworlds?
Also no Stygies love post CA? They kept their -1...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/09 11:29:21
So now that servo arms are finally worth it (at 0 points, yay!) I can finally get some servitors. I really liked the idea of them but hated their forced equipment cost. However, the official GW models aren't great..
Do people have any cool conversion ideas for them? I've thought about using cultists but basically replacing the front of their torsos with the admech backpacks so they get some dials.. Any other ideas/alternate models?
PiñaColada wrote: So now that servo arms are finally worth it (at 0 points, yay!) I can finally get some servitors. I really liked the idea of them but hated their forced equipment cost. However, the official GW models aren't great..
Do people have any cool conversion ideas for them? I've thought about using cultists but basically replacing the front of their torsos with the admech backpacks so they get some dials.. Any other ideas/alternate models?
Take a guardsmen body and slap a kataphron Head and Arm on him. Done.
PiñaColada wrote: So now that servo arms are finally worth it (at 0 points, yay!) I can finally get some servitors. I really liked the idea of them but hated their forced equipment cost. However, the official GW models aren't great..
Do people have any cool conversion ideas for them? I've thought about using cultists but basically replacing the front of their torsos with the admech backpacks so they get some dials.. Any other ideas/alternate models?
Take a guardsmen body and slap a kataphron Head and Arm on him. Done.
Use the negavolt dudes from black stone fortress? thats what i will do
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/09 13:03:32
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
So is Ryza a must for Kataphrons or can we make them work in other Forgeworlds?
Also no Stygies love post CA? They kept their -1...
I think Ryza is really good for Plasma destroyers, but they would also do very well in an Agripinaa detachment. Which might be a good choice for Grav destroyers.
Stygies is still great, but right now so many great combinations opened up for the other Forgeworlds that those deserve the attention they are getting these last few pages. Because by god, did they miss out past year.
The list ive just done, with Graia and the guard i will be able to repel assaulters and have enough bodies to cap the new chapter approved missions
+++ 412th Herakli ’Rust Scorpions’ +++
“How like a God he is, that ancient Machine, primal of all his Kind, the Tempered Iron!
His mighty armaments, pulsate like the weapons of Old Night, laden with the Doom of Mankind’s bitter Foes.
He watches over us as Battle joins, and in his Shadow we shall advance upon our Enemies and defeat them.”
All these lists are awesome, though I admit the idea of combining forgeworlds in a list with the same codex is just kinda cheesy in my opinion. i may be a snob though.
Lucius is still relatively untouched by all the changes, and I am even happier to field all the new formations we have. I just play pick up games so it's a mixed bag, but thus far the only list I had trouble with was a deathguard list that featured plague marines, typhus and mortarion all rocking around, so I just gotta figure out how to counter that.
Tiger9gamer wrote: All these lists are awesome, though I admit the idea of combining forgeworlds in a list with the same codex is just kinda cheesy in my opinion. i may be a snob though.
Lucius is still relatively untouched by all the changes, and I am even happier to field all the new formations we have. I just play pick up games so it's a mixed bag, but thus far the only list I had trouble with was a deathguard list that featured plague marines, typhus and mortarion all rocking around, so I just gotta figure out how to counter that.
I havent mixed forgeworlds just guard allies
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
Tiger9gamer wrote: All these lists are awesome, though I admit the idea of combining forgeworlds in a list with the same codex is just kinda cheesy in my opinion. i may be a snob though.
Lucius is still relatively untouched by all the changes, and I am even happier to field all the new formations we have. I just play pick up games so it's a mixed bag, but thus far the only list I had trouble with was a deathguard list that featured plague marines, typhus and mortarion all rocking around, so I just gotta figure out how to counter that.
I havent mixed forgeworlds just guard allies
oh! My bad then. I cannot snob you on that as I do the same with my tech thralls
Honestly, I want to do a list that involves the servitor maniple and a knight list just because it would seem fun. I really think battlescribe should update now instead of in just a week.
I am trying to think of any other fun lists I could put together... It just all seems so good right now though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/09 19:41:46
Aaranis wrote: Thing is, with the Ork codex and the upcoming GSC codex, my gut tells me Horde will come back in the meta at full strength. I'm already more wary of hordes than Knights to be honest, only one player plays full Knights in my meta, and the 1850 pts tournament I'm going to in February counts 7 T'au lists so far, being more than double than the second most used faction. I'm glad the Icarus got cheaper because I feel like I'm going to need it.
But horde-sweeping is something we can do well, Robots, Vanguards, Infiltrators with tasers, Grav-Destroyers. Might I suggest to think about using the Incendine Combustor on Robots if you're going to play them mobile ? 12" S5 AP-1 flamers are nice and make for a meaner Overwatch. If you're not using Strafing Run it still hits without penalty, and double-shooting with those will be quite scary.
I still maintain Agripinaa to be better for durability concerning 6 Destroyers, because of Fresh Converts and Servitor Maniple. You can fix 'em, res 'em and if there's too many casualties or you run of of Servitors bring them all back for 3CP. Oh and give them a 5++ first for added survivability.
All these mobility options are great because I'm always uncomfortable having a big Bots castle who can't move. Still, I think I'm going to play that at the tournament because I'm unsure if Vigilus will be authorized. After all it got cheaper by 90 pts if playing Cawl, Bots and 2 Onagers (tournament restrictions) and even more when including the 3 Destroyers, which I will do. In fact, here's the list I was thinking about if I could have your tournament players' wisdom guys (sorry for the layout I'm copying it from Word basically):
Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment (Mars) +5 CP: - Dominus, Volkite + Macrostubber, Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land - Warlord (Necromechanic)
- Belisarius Cawl
The reason I went full Mars is to allow the Enginseer to fix the Vehicles. If I did the Spearhead with Cawl and say a Stygies Battalion my Enginseer would be useless. And for ease of play for me and my opponent, as well as full rerolls from Cawl, I prefer this way.
The plan is simple: castle up with the Bots in tight formation, with maybe the Destroyers in front, screen them all with the line of Dragoons, Vanguards and Arc rifles Rangers. Onagers on the side together for rerolling 1s for the Invulnerable save and +1 Ld to Skitarii, and Cawl somewhere in the middle to buff them all. The snipers form a chain to benefit from Cawl but are otherwise in a nice spot to pick enemy Characters. The Dominus repairs the Onagers in priority, while the Datasmith and Enginseer try to fix the Bots. Infiltrators could start on the table but I believe they'd be better DSing turn 2 to catch an objective or something.
Elimination Volley + Double shots from the WoM Bots + Cawl should be devastating in a 36" bubble. 13 Deployments looks average to have the +1 for first turn but I have no idea honestly.
Thoughts ?
We don't need to worry about Knights any more. They need to worry about us. Move and shoot 6D6 S15 AP-3 D3 that hits on 3+, RR1s, and almost never gets hot is amazing. Then you have the usual 108 shots of S6 AP-2 D1, ignores cover, that hits on 4+, exploding mortal wound on 6+ wound rolls, RRAll, and now can move and shoot too.
As for horde, bringing a small horde of your own is the best solution. I like Catachan because they can go out there and charge Tyranids and Orks while making a respectable showing. Alternatives are a big wall of Ryza Dragoons, lots of Rangers, or even 6x4 Servitors (which cost 120 for 24x S6 AP-2 D3 attacks that land on 5+!) with Rangers.
I think we would all be running Agripinaa right now if Master of Biosplicing did not exist. As it stands, it seems a lot better to use Master of Machines to repair D3, use Tech-Adept if you roll a 1 to guarantee a full heal, then use Master of Biosplicing to resurrect a Kastelan. Spending 3 CP to resurrect them all at once invites risk-taking behavior. I have found that idiot-proofing my play is very important. And even if you are running Grav Destroyers, you want those Mars to do Elimination Volley with the Robots.
The Robots don't need to move. It's like the old pike square concept. One big block of immobile troops with cavalry and skirmishers at their flanks and corners.
I still think Sicarans are too inconsistent. It doesn't matter how much they cost if their effect on the battle is essentially zero. They are glassy and really need to make that charge to make their points back.
Take Icarus over Neutron always. The meta is filled with good Icarus targets. Even if nothing flies, Icarus Crawlers do a decent job against infantry and light vehicles.
PiñaColada wrote: So now that servo arms are finally worth it (at 0 points, yay!) I can finally get some servitors. I really liked the idea of them but hated their forced equipment cost. However, the official GW models aren't great..
Do people have any cool conversion ideas for them? I've thought about using cultists but basically replacing the front of their torsos with the admech backpacks so they get some dials.. Any other ideas/alternate models?
I plan to just use the Servo-Automata that came with my Macrotek Enginseer. Never assembled them because I was only interested in the Enginseer. (The quality of these sorts of resin models are abysmal though.)
Tiger9gamer wrote: All these lists are awesome, though I admit the idea of combining forgeworlds in a list with the same codex is just kinda cheesy in my opinion. i may be a snob though.
Lucius is still relatively untouched by all the changes, and I am even happier to field all the new formations we have. I just play pick up games so it's a mixed bag, but thus far the only list I had trouble with was a deathguard list that featured plague marines, typhus and mortarion all rocking around, so I just gotta figure out how to counter that.
Haters gonna hate. Hell, I'm even combining Forge Worlds in the same detachment right now. Anyhow, since all my dudes are blue, my rule is that no single model belongs to two different Forge Worlds.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/09 20:40:58
So i just re-read the cybernetica relic, the 9” change of protocol; I hate to be the one to raise this but it doesnt explciitly say the protocol changes instantly. All it says is that at the end of each movement phase you can change the protocol within 9” of the model with the relic. In other words it describes the most useless relic of our entire army. Increasing the range of the most poorly implemented mechanic we have. If you cant change the protocol so that it can actually be used then it’s worthless.
Octovol wrote: So i just re-read the cybernetica relic, the 9” change of protocol; I hate to be the one to raise this but it doesnt explciitly say the protocol changes instantly. All it says is that at the end of each movement phase you can change the protocol within 9” of the model with the relic. In other words it describes the most useless relic of our entire army. Increasing the range of the most poorly implemented mechanic we have. If you cant change the protocol so that it can actually be used then it’s worthless.
Correct. It is just a range increase.
@Aaranis
How many Ironstriders do you have? Because I thought about it, and if you want a mobile gunline, you can do something like this:
Spoiler:
Stygies VIII Brigade Detachment - 1505 Servitor Maniple (-1 CP)
House Krast Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment - 500
Lord of War - 500 1x Knight Styrix - Volkite Chierovile, Hekaton Siege Claw, Twin Rad-cleanser, Graviton Crusher, Warlord: First Knight (-1 CP), Relic: The Headsman's Mark (-1 CP)
Total: 2005 points 14 CP (-5)
Or some variation of that. Maybe figure out a way to use the last detachment. But the idea is to move and shoot all day. Haha.
EDIT: I miscalculated the points on Troops. So it's 5 over. But you get the idea. I don't think you need the Robots at all if you don't want to plant them.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/12/09 21:28:28
Octovol wrote: So i just re-read the cybernetica relic, the 9” change of protocol; I hate to be the one to raise this but it doesnt explciitly say the protocol changes instantly. All it says is that at the end of each movement phase you can change the protocol within 9” of the model with the relic. In other words it describes the most useless relic of our entire army. Increasing the range of the most poorly implemented mechanic we have. If you cant change the protocol so that it can actually be used then it’s worthless.
I wouldnt say its useless, i already knew it didnt immediately change there protocols. Instead i am taking it because then i dont need to spend 37pts on a datasmith, get an extra 3" range on that ability and a dominus can heal more than just kastelans so he is a better datasmith chassis. The only other relic i would take anyway would be the autocadaeus of arhkan land, i dont rate the other relics as being good.
and Suzuteo, you can only ever have 3 squads of normal servitors, so a max of 12 servitors in your army.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/09 21:21:18
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
deffrekka wrote: and Suzuteo, you can only ever have 3 squads of normal servitors, so a max of 12 servitors in your army.
Good catch. That would have been hilarious though. They all have mini Thunder Hammers.
I wouldnt go that far They have guard str power fists that dont have ap3. But with machine might they become str 8.... but dont bank on that
Automatically Appended Next Post: I would like to try out Corpuscarii Electro Priests as the new chapter approved missions are quite hard now to achieve, and these guys pump out shots but i have no idea how to get the within 12" without getting them murdered.
Its either a huge blob of 20 teleporting in with Lucius, 12 in a termite or advancing with Metalica. They have actual alright shooting, they just dont have resilience.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/09 21:40:19
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
413th Lucius Exterminaton Legion- 4,000pts 
as tallarn. This may work well on the cheaper veteran squads now, arm them with flamers, plasmas or grenade launchers and stay as the rear guard freeing up key units that have been locked up. 
