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So I just bought a bunch of Dark Angels and I heard that each army gets a "second wave" of new stuff usually 6 months after release. After looking at the codex everything in there, as far as I can tell, I can already get on GWs website either as a Dark Angels kit or an Ultra Marines kit. Does every army get a "second wave" and do they every include new models not in the codex or do they stick to just whats in the book? If every army gets a second wave, then will it just be them converting some metal HQ choices to fine cast or what?

Thanks

GW are trying to do second waves closer to the initial launch now to avoid the Chapterhouse fiasco happening again. Most book releases now have everything within a couple of months except for the odd special character.

Most armies get them if there's too many new kits for one wave, and no, they only ever include stuff from the codex. Completely new units not in a codex and not with a codex release are very, very rare.

Not anymore. GW has suspended its "waves" policy, so every unit written in the codex will have a miniature by the time the book gets released.

It's a good thing, actually. No more proxies or awkward conversions which might not be legal when the actual miniature finally hits the tabletops. But also means smaller releases, not massive redesigns like the Dark Eldar or Necrons.

Of course, new minis might still be released in the future, but (barring surprises like the Wall of Martyrs or the SM and ork fliers) those will be just remakes of old ones.

The old idea was to better capture share of wallet. Release stuff in chunks so you'll have the money to buy more stuff when it's new an exciting. But it wouldn't surprise me if the wealth of companies making conversion parts and alternate models hasn't since made them reconsider that strategy.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
The old idea was to better capture share of wallet. Release stuff in chunks so you'll have the money to buy more stuff when it's new an exciting. But it wouldn't surprise me if the wealth of companies making conversion parts and alternate models hasn't since made them reconsider that strategy.

The Chapterhouse lawsuit is a pretty good indicator. Since then, releases have included everything GW intended to release within two months of the codex with very few outliers (the only ones I can think of the the DE Bomber and some special characters). Some older books are missing more, like Tyranids, but since the lawsuit they've been doing their absolute best to release everything ASAP. Better it's released right away and someone buys the available GW kit 6 months later than release it 6 months later and someone bought a 3rd party model 3 months ago.

Another thing to consider is how many products for a given army are already in plastic. All flavors of space marines are pretty well covered already. Initial release only needs special characters and any new kits.

I think it's safe to say Eldar will have some completely new units to make kits for. They've also got a bunch of current units that could/ should go from metal to plastic. Assuming they end up with more kits than release slots, a second wave will be used. I don't think they'll wait 6 months like they have in the past though.

 Chronepsis wrote:
Another thing to consider is how many products for a given army are already in plastic. All flavors of space marines are pretty well covered already. Initial release only needs special characters and any new kits.

I think it's safe to say Eldar will have some completely new units to make kits for. They've also got a bunch of current units that could/ should go from metal to plastic. Assuming they end up with more kits than release slots, a second wave will be used. I don't think they'll wait 6 months like they have in the past though.

Have you seen the Eldar lineup? They only go from metal to finecast, unless they're Guardians, or Guardians with different hats, ala Dire Avengers.

Though, that might indicate that GW has bigger plans for the Aspect Warriors, and are just churning out finecast until they're replaced wholesale with new plastic sculpts with different options and such for their new codex.

Or I might just be hopeful.

 MajorStoffer wrote:

 Chronepsis wrote:
Another thing to consider is how many products for a given army are already in plastic. All flavors of space marines are pretty well covered already. Initial release only needs special characters and any new kits.

I think it's safe to say Eldar will have some completely new units to make kits for. They've also got a bunch of current units that could/ should go from metal to plastic. Assuming they end up with more kits than release slots, a second wave will be used. I don't think they'll wait 6 months like they have in the past though.

Have you seen the Eldar lineup? They only go from metal to finecast, unless they're Guardians, or Guardians with different hats, ala Dire Avengers.

Have you?

Seriously, because the only lineups people have seen so far are extremely dubious of origin. Especially considering even H&H being wrong in their current rumours, I wouldn't trust any rumours we get.

Trends point to GW liking dual kits. I wouldn't be shocked at all to see a couple of dual kits for Aspects, a new Guardian/Storm Guardian dual kit, and a few new units. Finecast is a stop-gap between dual metal/plastic ranges and going full plastic, so I'd be surprised to not see much Eldar stuff go plastic. The range needs it.

I was referring to the current Eldar offering of finecast everything, which due to the perceived stop-gap nature of the materiel points to them, hopefully, being replaced with multikits like you suggest.

Multikits do make good business sense for GW; fans can build the unit they want, and GW can charge a premium for the increased bit supply, while requiring the player to still buy the same number of kits, as while it has all the guns and do-dads, you still need the physical bodies. Not that the additional plastic actually costs GW any real amount of money, but there's a perception that they can cash in on.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
I was referring to the current Eldar offering of finecast everything, which due to the perceived stop-gap nature of the materiel points to them, hopefully, being replaced with multikits like you suggest.

Well, that was because it was a general conversion for as wide a range of models as possible from metal to resin. It wasn't about redoing kits, just changing the medium. A good example is the Hive Tyrant, which was in the first wave of Finecast, then 8 months later got a shiny new plastic triple kit (Tyrant, Flyrant, Swarmlord). Converting them to resin doesn't mean they won't get a plastic kit with the new book.

 MajorStoffer wrote:

 Chronepsis wrote:
Another thing to consider is how many products for a given army are already in plastic. All flavors of space marines are pretty well covered already. Initial release only needs special characters and any new kits.

I think it's safe to say Eldar will have some completely new units to make kits for. They've also got a bunch of current units that could/ should go from metal to plastic. Assuming they end up with more kits than release slots, a second wave will be used. I don't think they'll wait 6 months like they have in the past though.

Have you seen the Eldar lineup? They only go from metal to finecast, unless they're Guardians, or Guardians with different hats, ala Dire Avengers.

Though, that might indicate that GW has bigger plans for the Aspect Warriors, and are just churning out finecast until they're replaced wholesale with new plastic sculpts with different options and such for their new codex.

Or I might just be hopeful.

Yes, yes I have. My bad disregarding the change to resin. It's what happens when you start selling old minis and they're all metal (metal versions of current sculpts). You're aware all the current resin pieces were in metal right? My comment still stands.

"I think it's safe to say Eldar will have some completely new units to make kits for. They've also got a bunch of current units that could/ should go from metal(resin) to plastic. Assuming they end up with more kits than release slots, a second wave will be used."

The current design of the various Eldar aspect warrior cults pose a unique problem in comparison to other armies. While its very possible to do a combined Dire Avengers/Striking Scorpions kit, it won't be possible to do a combined kit making Dark Reapers, Warp Spiders, Howling Banshees, or Swooping Hawks without some major design changes.

That being said, I don't foresee a huge change in the the designs for these aspect warriors. Much like the Chaos cult troops, Eldar may be stuck with finecast versions of the old models for the rest of the aspect warriors.

Agent_Tremolo wrote:But also means smaller releases, not massive redesigns like the Dark Eldar or Necrons.

I don't know if I'd take it that far.

I mean, DA are just space marines. They didn't NEED to have a massive redesign. As such, it was going to be a lot easier for them to have all of their plastics out with the codex, especially considering they're in the starter set, whether they have a one-wave strategy or not.

If anything, it just means that those last few armies that actually need a serious redesign will just take longer for their codices to come out (because they've got more modelling to do). That said, I feel like the number of armies that are going to have big content changes is growing pretty short.

They've been doing a good job of making big, robust codices as of late. I mean, I can't imagine a new ork codex or a new chaos codex or a new guard codex coming out with all that many new minis they'll need to design.

Current policy seems to be:

- Retain existing plastic kits wherever possible. Therefore I expect no change in the plastic kits.

- Introduce bitz sprues to customise basic kits. Now you can use basic CSM to make Thousand Sons, Noise Marines, etc. I expect to see some kind of basic aspect warrior kit and then a supply of finecost upgrade sprues.

- I would not be surprised to see similar for vehicles, a basic Eldar chasis with a load of improvement sprues.

- I hope for a redical rethink of the Eldar, resculpts and units which make sense in the new ruleset.

We still technically have waves, it's just the Second wave is the actual release now.

A lot of Armies are getting WD updates, with new Models and rules, before their codex, and then getting their second wave at actual release, to round out the line. This allows GW to profit from their Wave release, and not have the problems of missing units at Codex release.

We've seen VC/WOC follow this, and we will see it when Daemons come out as well, since they got their first "Wave" in August.

This won't be required for every army though. Armies that are more fleshed out, like most SM chapters, and most Xenos now as well.