Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I for one think he is top notch for the price. LD 10 for all units and DW and RW as troops, not to mention 4++ for his squad. I can see a competitive and fluffy army with him. What are dakka's thoughts/ tactics/uses?

That you sir have an excellent name ! I honestly think he's a bit pricy for smaller games >1500

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
That you sir have an excellent name ! I honestly think he's a bit pricy for smaller games >1500

Haha as do you my fellow man lol. You are right about under 1500 pts.

At higher games , you have to be careful of a lot of AP2. Will drop your character very easily -

He gives any unit he joins a 4++, presently, this includes Battle Brother Allies, so a nice big squad of 4++ imperial guardsmen with Power Axe wielding veterans. Tasty.

Even in a pure list, 3+/4++ marines aren't super easy to displace either.

He gets to pick his Warlord trait. That Necron player janking you over with Mindshackle? Now you can roll 4D6 and drop the highest.

Why not make him FnP and camp a backfield objective with his unit?

--

215 points, for what he brings to the table, is a steal. You're right about list building though, 1500 is even a challenge.

Yeah, he adds a lot, but like all force multipliers you need to ensure you get your points back from his buffs, so that means tailoring your list to him instead of adding him to your list.

For example, he grants a 4++, but if you stick him in a command squad with no upgraded they gain twice the wounds, but storm Shields and a Chaplain cost less for an equal save if that is all your using him for. On the flip side, in a unit of 50 guard you get 45 more bodies to apply that buff to.

215 might sound expensive but he saved 40pts in my list from not having to upgrade my sergeants to vets for the higher leadership because of rites of battle. so lets say hes now sitting at effectively 175. thats a steal for an HQ that also turns my deathwing AND ravenwing units scoring and hes really no slouch in combat with artificer armour, S6 sword and his generous 4++ he gives to himself and friends. And he has 4 wounds which just might make the difference between my opponent getting slay the warlord and not. ands thats not even figuring in that he can choose his on warlord trait. he may be questionable if your running a pure deathwing or ravenwing army but if you at all plan on playing a mixed force hes almost mandatory in my opinion.

Azrael in a command squad with a banner makes tactical squads near him LD10 stubborn with a re-rollable 3d6 discard the highest on ld tests.

Being able to guarantee the warlord trait of reserves on 2+ is pretty damn big deal as well. Considering that Ravenwing special crap is unusually high on offense versus durability, it is even more so.

What squad should he be attached to? I was thinking of a 10 man Veteran squad with plasma support and maybe a pw or two. I feel that the command squad is too small to benefit from the 4++ save. Thoughts?

 Kasrkin52 wrote:
What squad should he be attached to? I was thinking of a 10 man Veteran squad with plasma support and maybe a pw or two. I feel that the command squad is too small to benefit from the 4++ save. Thoughts?

An infantry platoon comes to mind, with 4 combined infantry squads, sergeants armed with power weapons and meltaboms, joined by a primaris psyker. Choose Hold at All Costs as warlord trait and you have 42 models with a 4++, FnP and reroll misses.

In a pure list, what is recommended?

Doesn't the Warlord trait state only DA units can benefit from FnP? I don't think the IG would benefit.

Been thinking about Azreal in helping against triple Helldrake or Tzeentch demon lists that are quite troublesome and the concept of 30 Death Company led by Azreal appears to be able to shake off the above mentioned units.

Fluff wise, just build and paint your own chapter. Allies opened up a whole new avenue of painting and modelling projects and has really helped me from getting board with an army.

I think the problem with Azrael is that his retinue is a tax in a way that it isn't for Belial or Sammael. Belial synergizes with Terminators, Sammael synergizes with Bikers.

By contrast, Azrael is a foot infantry with no Deep Strike, which means you have to come up with a third, non-scoring unit to pack him in as a retinue.

I'd be curious to see these psychotic IG lists with batreps.

Also, I'm going to go out and say AP3 on SCs makes me nervous. Particularly when one Thunder Hammer reduces him down to a 4+ save and causes instant death. 40p model hits on 4s, wounds on 2s, and only a 4+ save keeping you between that and death... on top of that your Power Weapon attacks bounce off his armor.

 TedNugent wrote:
I think the problem with Azrael is that his retinue is a tax in a way that it isn't for Belial or Sammael. Belial synergizes with Terminators, Sammael synergizes with Bikers.

By contrast, Azrael is a foot infantry with no Deep Strike, which means you have to come up with a third, non-scoring unit to pack him in as a retinue.

I'd be curious to see these psychotic IG lists with batreps.

Also, I'm going to go out and say AP3 on SCs makes me nervous. Particularly when one Thunder Hammer reduces him down to a 4+ save and causes instant death. 40p model hits on 4s, wounds on 2s, and only a 4+ save keeping you between that and death... on top of that your Power Weapon attacks bounce off his armor.

Lack of Eternal Warrior is easily his biggest weakness, this is why I think the blob guard is a good way to roll with him. For a couple hundred points you can get 30 infantry with a 4++ and a primaris psyker giving you quite a few IC's to soak up challenges if you want to keep him out of deadly challenges. The other option is to put him with a DW command squad with a TDA Libby and Champion in a LR. A few IC's to protect him and he can still bring some pain in CC. Problem here is his 4++ is kinda wasted with a Terminator squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mandor wrote:
An infantry platoon comes to mind, with 4 combined infantry squads, sergeants armed with power weapons and meltaboms, joined by a primaris psyker. Choose Hold at All Costs as warlord trait and you have 42 models with a 4++, FnP and reroll misses.

Where are you getting reroll misses? I don't think Primaris psykers can't take Divination powers if that is what you mean.

 TedNugent wrote:
I think the problem with Azrael is that his retinue is a tax in a way that it isn't for Belial or Sammael. Belial synergizes with Terminators, Sammael synergizes with Bikers.

By contrast, Azrael is a foot infantry with no Deep Strike, which means you have to come up with a third, non-scoring unit to pack him in as a retinue.

Why does it have to be non-scoring?

For me his biggest weakness is the lack of eternal warrior, if you play him safe he can be quite amazing.

If you're foot slogging him you can throw him in with some Deathwing Knights and make use of the +1T from the formation (granted to any model with "inner circle" touching bases with 2 models that have "fortress of shields", or just leave him at the back with 3 touching bases up front, so the squad has 50% with T5, giving them an effective T5 (without all of them being in base to base for pie plates).

Personally I like him with a command squad that are given apothecary for FNP + Chapter Banner and a couple (5 ) power weapons. He has S6 and 7Attacks in the charge, each of them has 5A in the charge. Stick that in a land raider of your choice. (Interrorgator chaplain is a cheaper version of this)

I wouldn't deep strike him, personally but you can always give them a drop pod.

smee wrote:
For me his biggest weakness is the lack of eternal warrior, if you play him safe he can be quite amazing.

If you're foot slogging him you can throw him in with some Deathwing Knights and make use of the +1T from the formation (granted to any model with "inner circle" touching bases with 2 models that have "fortress of shields", or just leave him at the back with 3 touching bases up front, so the squad has 50% with T5, giving them an effective T5 (without all of them being in base to base for pie plates).

Personally I like him with a command squad that are given apothecary for FNP + Chapter Banner and a couple (5 ) power weapons. He has S6 and 7Attacks in the charge, each of them has 5A in the charge. Stick that in a land raider of your choice. (Interrorgator chaplain is a cheaper version of this)

I wouldn't deep strike him, personally but you can always give them a drop pod.

Pretty sure he would only get 6 attacks (4 base + charge + banner), and the Command squad can only have 4 PW as the Apothecary can't change equipment. I would agree about the lack of eternal warrior being a large downside but the same is true of all the HQ's (bar Sammael).

A 10 man squad of shooty DW terminators marching up the filed with him giving them the 4++ save sounds shiny to me. Splitfire CML or assault cannons from the storm bolter fire and mess some stuff up in close combat. with all them power and chain fists. Plus, scoring. Though, that is a lot of points in a 1500 point list and would basically be your army, which has a lot of counters to it. But I think it would still be fun to run that 11 man squad for 700 points beating stuff up =)

 LordRogalDorn wrote:
A 10 man squad of shooty DW terminators marching up the filed with him giving them the 4++ save sounds shiny to me. Splitfire CML or assault cannons from the storm bolter fire and mess some stuff up in close combat. with all them power and chain fists. Plus, scoring. Though, that is a lot of points in a 1500 point list and would basically be your army, which has a lot of counters to it. But I think it would still be fun to run that 11 man squad for 700 points beating stuff up =)

Wouldnt you rather just take Belial and land them right on target and shoot instead of footslogging? 4++ is good but you take more casualty walking all that way.

I am looking at a Command Squad with a Banner, a Chapion, Apthicary and 3 Plasma Guns and just put them in a Fortification.
There also probably be some Deathwing and Raven out there to support my Tacticals.

tidalwake wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
I think the problem with Azrael is that his retinue is a tax in a way that it isn't for Belial or Sammael. Belial synergizes with Terminators, Sammael synergizes with Bikers.

By contrast, Azrael is a foot infantry with no Deep Strike, which means you have to come up with a third, non-scoring unit to pack him in as a retinue.

I'd be curious to see these psychotic IG lists with batreps.

Also, I'm going to go out and say AP3 on SCs makes me nervous. Particularly when one Thunder Hammer reduces him down to a 4+ save and causes instant death. 40p model hits on 4s, wounds on 2s, and only a 4+ save keeping you between that and death... on top of that your Power Weapon attacks bounce off his armor.

Lack of Eternal Warrior is easily his biggest weakness, this is why I think the blob guard is a good way to roll with him. For a couple hundred points you can get 30 infantry with a 4++ and a primaris psyker giving you quite a few IC's to soak up challenges if you want to keep him out of deadly challenges. The other option is to put him with a DW command squad with a TDA Libby and Champion in a LR. A few IC's to protect him and he can still bring some pain in CC. Problem here is his 4++ is kinda wasted with a Terminator squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mandor wrote:
An infantry platoon comes to mind, with 4 combined infantry squads, sergeants armed with power weapons and meltaboms, joined by a primaris psyker. Choose Hold at All Costs as warlord trait and you have 42 models with a 4++, FnP and reroll misses.

Where are you getting reroll misses? I don't think Primaris psykers can take Divination powers if that is what you mean.

AFAIK guard can take divination, unless I have been cheated, a lot!.

Try something like:

Azrael attatched to a veterans squad with storm bolters, power weapons, whatever has your fancy in a drop pod (at least 6 but go for as many as you can)

x2 5-man squads of Terminators arriving in the 1st turn

x2 ravenwing squads with attatched attack bikes

x2 5 or 10-man scout squads (personally I go with bolters and heavy bolters)

x1 Nephalim

For smaller games just reduce the above by half to a minimum of 1 but go larger on the scouts.

All in all what this gives you is a 'safe' drop pod shooty-as-hell deployment for your HQ, scout move the ravenwing and bring down the termies as far forward as possible to support the drop pod (12" scout + 6" range of the TP homer), infiltrating units to also support the drop pod or terminators as needed, follow up support from the ravenwing attack bikes for heavy targets (did I mention to bring multi melta's when possible?), and the Nephalim for any pesky flyers (use the TL Las). As presented its + or - 1500 poitns and 6 scoring units.

MarkyMark wrote:


AFAIK guard can take divination, unless I have been cheated, a lot!.

Sorry my post should say can't take divination, not can. I am not sure as I don't play guard myself but the regular opponent does and he said they can't, also in the pack of psyker power cards there is a list that shows what armies can take what powers and guard can take everything but Divination.

MarkyMark wrote:

tidalwake wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
I think the problem with Azrael is that his retinue is a tax in a way that it isn't for Belial or Sammael. Belial synergizes with Terminators, Sammael synergizes with Bikers.

By contrast, Azrael is a foot infantry with no Deep Strike, which means you have to come up with a third, non-scoring unit to pack him in as a retinue.

I'd be curious to see these psychotic IG lists with batreps.

Also, I'm going to go out and say AP3 on SCs makes me nervous. Particularly when one Thunder Hammer reduces him down to a 4+ save and causes instant death. 40p model hits on 4s, wounds on 2s, and only a 4+ save keeping you between that and death... on top of that your Power Weapon attacks bounce off his armor.

Lack of Eternal Warrior is easily his biggest weakness, this is why I think the blob guard is a good way to roll with him. For a couple hundred points you can get 30 infantry with a 4++ and a primaris psyker giving you quite a few IC's to soak up challenges if you want to keep him out of deadly challenges. The other option is to put him with a DW command squad with a TDA Libby and Champion in a LR. A few IC's to protect him and he can still bring some pain in CC. Problem here is his 4++ is kinda wasted with a Terminator squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mandor wrote:
An infantry platoon comes to mind, with 4 combined infantry squads, sergeants armed with power weapons and meltaboms, joined by a primaris psyker. Choose Hold at All Costs as warlord trait and you have 42 models with a 4++, FnP and reroll misses.

Where are you getting reroll misses? I don't think Primaris psykers can take Divination powers if that is what you mean.

AFAIK guard can take divination, unless I have been cheated, a lot!.

You cant take divination with Primaris, but why would you when a Libby is better and cheaper with Divination.
Also, Hold at all cost requires Codex DA units. Take For the Lion! or Brilliant Planning instead.

Anyone else for ideas on where to stick Azrael in pure DA list?

I was thinking of attaching him to a Veteran Squad and parking him one of the objectives on my side.

 Kasrkin52 wrote:
Anyone else for ideas on where to stick Azrael in pure DA list?

Assault Vets or Command Squad in a Land Raider.

That's it. Anything else is a bad idea.