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I'm building this list up to be a serious threat vs my mates space wolves, an he needs knocking down a peg or two, way too cocky....

Please tell me all what you think?

HQ: CCS (+VC/+3MG/+CC)
HQ: Primaris Psyker

ELITES: 10man ST Squad (+PW/+2MG/+AA rule)

TROOPS: Vet Squad (+VC/+2F/+HF/+HB/+FS doc)

TROOPS: Vet Squad (+VC/+3PG/+AC/+FS doc)

TROOPS: Vet Squad (+VC/+3PG/+AC/+FS doc)

FAST ATTACK: 3x Armoured sentinels (x3 PC)

FAST ATTACK: Vendetta Gunship

FAST ATTACK: Vendetta Gunship

HVY SUPPORT: Leman Russ Punisher (+HB's/+Pask)

HVY SUPPORT: Leman Russ BT (+LC/+HB's)

TRANSPORTS: x3 Chimera (+EA/+HKM)


I'm new at 40k bare in mind so be kind lmao. but my idea for this list is to be very surgical strike, obviously first port of call other then dropping off ST'sis for both vendettas to take out my mates landraider, hopefully clearing his wolf guard as well (hate termi's), the sentinels are to intercept his scouts if he trys to sneak in or any other high threat troop, the punisher is going to be on glancing to death duty on transports, also thought might be funny to use law of averages on overwhelming his HQ's with slowed amounts of str 5 hits. but as I said would appriciate what people thought

You don't want the Primaris Psyker. SW have one of the best Psychic Defense. Plus he isn't all that good anyways. I'd take Marbo to cause some chaos on his back lines. His democharge on some Long fangs would be nice.

That being said without knowing what type of SW list your friend runs it is impossible to give you much advise. Does he have long fangs? How about TWC? Drop pods?
Give us a little more to work with and we can help more.

I know for a fact he uses a drop pod with dread, scouts, wolf guard in landraider, razor back with long fangs an thats all I sorta know for conctrete but its 2000 points I think he has two long fang squads with +2ML & +2HB in each....also does anyone know if SW's can now have flakk missles an how much it costs to give his long fangs them

I too play SW quite frequently (although I have DA and Orks) so I might be able to help. What type of list does he run? In my opinion, you need more bodies. If any of his wolves get into combat, or anywhere near you for that matter, he can just murder your vets and then you can't score or win the game.

Get rid of the sentinels imo. They always seem to be worse than what you think.

Punisher is take it or leave it, but i personally prefer regular LRBTs more. They can take out things like rhinos pretty easily as they are str8 ordnance, and can then blow up all the grey hunters inside. Use them in tandem to destroy a rhino/razorback per turn. Blow up the transport with one (you may be able to get two if he places them close enough together) and then use the other to annihilate the squad that gets out. If you do this it should severely limit the number of guys he can get to your front lines.

Flyers are fine to me as the Space pups don't get much in the way of AA, except an aegis line.

If he is bringing Thunder Wolves, i wish you best of luck, as most of what I have tried to kill them hasn't worked too well. You just sort of have to overwhelm them with wounds (which is hard for str 3 lasgun guard) or make them take invuls (if they have storm shields it isn't that much of a help either.) I'd say to focus your flyers or punisher on them, as multiple wounds seems to be the way to go imo.

Go ahead and post the units he likes to field and we can help you out a bit more.

-VardenV2

I think you've made a common mistake that a lot of new players do, which is put an emphasis on upgrades over bodies. A good rule of thumb to always try and keep in mind when building a list, regardless of your opponent, is "boys before toys," i.e., if you can field more bodies over taking shiny upgrades for the ones you already have, it will most likely serve you better in the long run to have the higher model count.

Consider your first list (which is 1995 points) to a similar one I put together based off of yours:

HQ:

Company Command Squad [5] - 145
-4x Meltagun
-Chimera, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser

ELITES:

Stormtroopers [5] - 105
-2x Meltagun

TROOPS:

Infantry Platoon

-Platoon Command Squad [5] - 40 (Platoon Commander mans the Quad Gun)
-Autocannon

-Infantry Squad [10] - 100
-Commissar, Autocannon, Grenade Launcher

-Infantry Squad [10] - 65
-Autocannon, Grenade Launcher

-Infantry Squad [10] - 65
-Autocannon, Grenade Launcher

-Special Weapons Squad [6] - 75 (Embarked on a Vendetta)
-2x Meltagun, Demolition Charge

-Special Weapons Squad [6] - 75 (Embarked on a Vendetta)
-2x Meltagun, Demolition Charge

Veteran Squad [10] - 170
-3x Plasma Gun
-Chimera, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser

Veteran Squad [10] - 170
-3x Plasma Gun
-Chimera, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser

Veteran Squad [10] - 170
-3x Plasma Gun
-Chimera, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser

FAST ATTACK:

Vendetta Gunship - 130
-3x Twin-linked Lascannon

Vendetta Gunship - 130
-3x Twin-linked Lascannon

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Leman Russ Battle Tank - 150
-Battle Cannon, Hull Heavy Bolter

Leman Russ Battle Tank - 150
-Battle Cannon, Hull Heavy Bolter

Manticore Rocket Launcher - 160
-Storm Eagle Rockets, Hull Heavy Bolter

FORTIFICATION:

Aegis Defense Line - 100
-Quad Gun

TOTAL - 2000

You still have your meched veteran squads, your company command squad, stormtroopers, vendettas, and russes, but now you have stable autocannons that can fire their full BS behind cover, anti-aircraft fire, two more deepstriking melta/demo units, a ride for the CCS, and some S10 artillery.

 AreTwo wrote:
I think you've made a common mistake that a lot of new players do, which is put an emphasis on upgrades over bodies. A good rule of thumb to always try and keep in mind when building a list, regardless of your opponent, is "boys before toys," i.e., if you can field more bodies over taking shiny upgrades for the ones you already have, it will most likely serve you better in the long run to have the higher model count.

Consider your first list (which is 1995 points) to a similar one I put together based off of yours:

Spoiler:

HQ:

Company Command Squad [5] - 145
-4x Meltagun
-Chimera, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser

ELITES:

Stormtroopers [5] - 105
-2x Meltagun

TROOPS:

Infantry Platoon

-Platoon Command Squad [5] - 40 (Platoon Commander mans the Quad Gun)
-Autocannon

-Infantry Squad [10] - 100
-Commissar, Autocannon, Grenade Launcher

-Infantry Squad [10] - 65
-Autocannon, Grenade Launcher

-Infantry Squad [10] - 65
-Autocannon, Grenade Launcher

-Special Weapons Squad [6] - 75 (Embarked on a Vendetta)
-2x Meltagun, Demolition Charge

-Special Weapons Squad [6] - 75 (Embarked on a Vendetta)
-2x Meltagun, Demolition Charge

Veteran Squad [10] - 170
-3x Plasma Gun
-Chimera, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser

Veteran Squad [10] - 170
-3x Plasma Gun
-Chimera, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser

Veteran Squad [10] - 170
-3x Plasma Gun
-Chimera, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Laser

FAST ATTACK:

Vendetta Gunship - 130
-3x Twin-linked Lascannon

Vendetta Gunship - 130
-3x Twin-linked Lascannon

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Leman Russ Battle Tank - 150
-Battle Cannon, Hull Heavy Bolter

Leman Russ Battle Tank - 150
-Battle Cannon, Hull Heavy Bolter

Manticore Rocket Launcher - 160
-Storm Eagle Rockets, Hull Heavy Bolter

FORTIFICATION:

Aegis Defense Line - 100
-Quad Gun

TOTAL - 2000

You still have your meched veteran squads, your company command squad, stormtroopers, vendettas, and russes, but now you have stable autocannons that can fire their full BS behind cover, anti-aircraft fire, two more deepstriking melta/demo units, a ride for the CCS, and some S10 artillery.

What he said. This is a tough list. In fact, I don't think I could beat this with my 2000 point SW list - there's just too much firepower.

That is a lot of bodies. I tend to run similar lists, but all mech vets with no infantry blob. If you want to try that, a similar list would be like this..

CCS, plasma x4, astropath, chimera

Veterans, plasma x3, chimera
Veterans, plasma x3, chimera
Veterans, plasma x3, chimera
Veterans, plasma x3, chimera
Veterans, melta x2, plasma x1, chimera
Veterans, melta x3, chimera

Guardsman Marbo

Vendetta Gunship
Vendetta Gunship

Basilisk
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Manticore

Aegis Defense Line


This list was just a draft I thought up hastily, but you get the idea. Really, I guess it just depends on what you want to do and whether you have 7 chimeras or not! The other one would need more guardsman but still gonna be cheaper to put together.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Areto,

I think I'm gonna run that list you wrote up in my next casual game. It looks pretty solid!.

P.S. I think that allying with a marine chapter (SPACE WOLVES or DARK ANGELS) can really help guard. Having some survivable infantry in front of an IG gun-line can be really hard to deal with. Throw a couple squads of Grey Hunters, a Rune Priest and a pack of Long Fangs at him. Fight fire with fire!!!

P.S. I think that allying with a marine chapter (SPACE WOLVES or DARK ANGELS) can really help guard. Having some survivable infantry in front of an IG gun-line can be really hard to deal with. Throw a couple squads of Grey Hunters, a Rune Priest and a pack of Long Fangs at him. Fight fire with fire!!!

If you want to make it extra fluffy, use some Dark Angels, as they have a bit of a rivalry and grudge match with the Space Wolves. Deathwing can also make excellent shock troops to help you with a solid close-combat punch that can also shoot, protecting your veterans a little bit better. They can be a problem your SW opponent will have to deal with, allowing your IG to be safer as they roll up the field. However, you will need to take Belial to make them troops, and this can be an expensive allies choice. Your call though.

Belial - 190

and the following options may be good:

Deathwing Terminator Squad I - 265
1) Sgt w/ Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
2) Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
3) Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
4) Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
5) Assault cannon, Chainfist (could also use a plasma cannon instead of assault cannon for more anti-terminator goodness)

OR

Deathwing Terminator Squad II - 255
1) Sgt w/ Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
2) Storm Bolter, Powerfist, Cyclone Missile Launcher (good for rhinos, razorbacks, and MEQ)
3) Storm Bolter, Powerfist
4) Storm Bolter, Powerfist
5) Storm Bolter, Chainfist

-VardenV2

I play sw and I say take valkyria vedettas and leman russ and some bodies

Well I've been over the list many times with my other mates and everything has a role to play including the vets, I already know my SW mate is fearing the Vendetta's wuhahaha, bye bye landraider, also he really likes to run with long fangs in razor backs, so my vendettas are paramount, they can't be removed.

If anyones seen "we were soldier" they'll under stand whats going to happen to him lol.

The armoured sentinels are going to deal with the terminators if the LR don't blow up. even if this list don't work, still gona have fun, been doing alot of conversion work to look my vets with FS doc look badarsed lol

 VardenV2 wrote:

P.S. I think that allying with a marine chapter (SPACE WOLVES or DARK ANGELS) can really help guard. Having some survivable infantry in front of an IG gun-line can be really hard to deal with. Throw a couple squads of Grey Hunters, a Rune Priest and a pack of Long Fangs at him. Fight fire with fire!!!

If you want to make it extra fluffy, use some Dark Angels, as they have a bit of a rivalry and grudge match with the Space Wolves. Deathwing can also make excellent shock troops to help you with a solid close-combat punch that can also shoot, protecting your veterans a little bit better. They can be a problem your SW opponent will have to deal with, allowing your IG to be safer as they roll up the field. However, you will need to take Belial to make them troops, and this can be an expensive allies choice. Your call though.

Belial - 190

and the following options may be good:

Deathwing Terminator Squad I - 265
1) Sgt w/ Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
2) Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
3) Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
4) Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
5) Assault cannon, Chainfist (could also use a plasma cannon instead of assault cannon for more anti-terminator goodness)

OR

Deathwing Terminator Squad II - 255
1) Sgt w/ Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
2) Storm Bolter, Powerfist, Cyclone Missile Launcher (good for rhinos, razorbacks, and MEQ)
3) Storm Bolter, Powerfist
4) Storm Bolter, Powerfist
5) Storm Bolter, Chainfist

-VardenV2

Belial does not really work as well any more, as he can only be in Primary detachments and do the FCO swap. No more DWA allies, made my Tau sad.

To the OP, as bug player, your list wound not bother me, so I doubt it would even phase a SW player. The other 2 list put out on the other hand, I do not like facing.

So basically what everyones saying is ignore most things in the IG codex an play math-hammer an just have a giant blob guard army, which then completely takes away from what I was going for, no ty.

Look. If I were you, I'd make an all comers list and play about 10 games or so. It doesn't make sense to worry about Space Wolves unless you play them every time. Use what you like, but if you want to beat other top tier armies, you need to bring your best stuff. If you are playing say Sisters or BA, sure, bring whatever.

Actually will admit after really sitting downwith codex, gotta admit those other lists you showed me are pritty good, so have tried to add my own flavour abit and edit my list.

tell me what you think

HQ: CCS (x3 MG, x1 Vox) - 140
+chimera

ELITE: storm trooper squad (x2 MG)

TROOPS: Infantry platoon

-PCS (+VC, +AC) - 45
-Inf Sq (+com, +GL, +VC, +AC) - 70
-Inf Sq (+VC, +GL, +AC) - 70
-Inf Sq (+VC, +GL, +AC) - 70
-Spc Wp Sq (x2 MG, +DC) - 75 (vendetta)
-Spc Wp Sq (x2MG, +DC) - 75 (vendetta)

Troop: Vet Sq (+VC, x3PG, +AC, +FS doc) - 215
- Chimera, Multi Laser, Hvy Flamer

Troop: Vet Sq (+VC, x3PG, +AC, +FS doc) - 215
-Chimera, multi laser, Hvy Flamer

Fast attack: Vendetta gunship (x3 TL LC) - 130
Fast attack: Vendetta gunship (x3 TL LC) - 130
Fast attack: Vulture gunship (TL Punisher) - 155

Hvy Support: LR Battle tank (+LC, +HB's, +HS) - 185
Hvy Support: LR Battle tank (+LC, +HB's, +HS) - 185

TOTAL - 2000

I'd like to thank everyone for suggestions and help, but i think this is the list I'm going to serve my friends arse to him with lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh sorry forgot togot to add, the ageis defense line with quad cannon lmao....THEN it mkes 2000pts lol

Realize that if you pop his transports, you only need a couple good battle cannon hits to his main squads to cripple his list. This is true in general for meqs.

You need to use the vendettas to your advantage, zip around use your maneuverability to take out special weapons, power weapons etc

Dont let him hit your lines with any sizeable force, if he does your probably looking at game over

Commander Helia wrote:
You need to use the vendettas to your advantage, zip around use your maneuverability to take out special weapons, power weapons etc

Dont let him hit your lines with any sizeable force, if he does your probably looking at game over

On this note, use the speed to get behind/to the flank of his squads. This will force him to remove models closest to the gun firing, and usually the more precious characters or weapons will be "padded" at the back. With some good maneuvering you might be able to "snipe" some characters or special weapons. Focus fire is good at this too. Get an angle so that only the character or special weapon is out of cover and force that character to be focused. It's dirty, but it works hehe.

-VardenV2

Well my plan is for the vendetta to drop the spec wp teams off to just blow the crap out of his long fangs&razor backs, whilst the vendetta's then blow the crap out of his land raider, the battle tanks are of course doing what the do best an just blowing rhe crap out of what ever they can see and the Vulture gunship is going to deepstrike in hopefully after the long fangs are gone and open up some serious arse rimming, its AP-, but i think thanks to twin linked an str 5 it'll still even by law of averages really give his basic troops a bad day, then hope all this carnage is going to take heat off my vets whilst the take up positions in ruins/buildings/cover an really hurt his, well anything infantry and my platoon back at the ageis defense line along with the BT's just also firing constantly....I am a learner and I'm sure theres to be many cock ups, but I think more an more I look at this list that it could really hurt an work