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Hey Dakka

What are the compeditive Tourny Builds for each race for 6th edition now that we are almost 7 full months into it? Ive only been in one official tournament before and all I know is MSU build - what are the others called so I can look them up and teach myself

Cheers

You can't just have a "competitive build" for every army.

You build an army, based on what you'd like in it (usually based upon a theme/tactic), then you have to play it using good tactics, and then possibly win a game.

Yeah I know what you mean, but im not familiar with the 40k "nomenclature". I learned from reading dakka about the 5th edition Draigowing and DoA ... but I dont know the generalized competitive builds or theories behind them eg taking maximum number of scoring units with the smallest possible number of models in each unit and maximizing that units upgrades = MSU.

I dont know any of the other generalised theories out there, are there any more?

Are the most compeditive builds from 5th edition still top dog in 6th edition? If not, what has replaced them?

so, in other words, you want everyone to supply you with competiTive tournament builds for varying points values from all the different codexes?

hahaha no no no

Like the main ideas for eg MSU build using grey knights (dont care about the pts value or specific units involved). Im looking for the idea behind the build, the stratergy that drives the build.

For example if you were a Grey knights player there are two compeditive builds (for arguements sake) and what makes them winners is an underlying idea behind each, one such idea is MSU. I am after the idea or principle that guides army construction.

40k army lists / tactics is where you'll likely want to go then. There's a big GK "tactica" thread in the latter section.

Well, I can tell you that necron airforce made gk msu/parking lot combo's terrible. At any competitive tourney expect to face one necron airforce, and don't be surprised if you face more at large tourney's. Fliers are Dangerous!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically when your gk termies and such eat 3 or 4 s10 ap1 shots to the face, there is not too much you can do

There is nothing wrong with this question....if someone wants to go to tourneys, and they want to know what is competitive, it is either for being warned not to build an eldar mech army or to know what to build an army to beat.

I've been scratching my head myself about what to build around....

I've been to 3 smaller tourneys (18-24 players) and one larger 2 day event (64 players) and from what I've seen snagging top spots (best overall, best general or top 3) have been quite varied:

IG/GK
CSM/Demons
Orks
Tyranids
Eldar/DE
Space Marine
Ork/Necron

My best placing has been 5th at a local RTT (20 players) with Eldar. However, I did get best painted, so there's something to be said for us guys who take years to amass one huge painted army.

It's truly baffling to me how 6th completely changed how armies are being built and the advent of allies really tweaking armies

Yeah, for me at least it's still pretty early to really know how 6th is working out. Especially since the second 6th codex has only just been released.

Personally, for my chaos, I'm dropping rhinos and going footslogging. The changes to cover and vehicles have made having an all foot army much better than it used to be. In addition, allies and fliers have really shaken up the meta.
Typically the strongest list in the game right now is the flying bakery, with lots of necron fliers, that or IG with lots of fliers, and hence if you're going to a tourny, having a plan to deal with flier spam lists is a must. Other than that I think balanced lists are still king.

CC is much worse unless you don't need transports to get into it, 40k is a shooting game now. I've removed all assault elements from my chaos force and typically just rely on outshooting the opponent before they hit me.

Speeders and bikers have also got boosts with straight up t5 and lots of cover saves. With the new DA codex I'd not be surprised to see more ravenwing bikers around and hence having cover ignoring weapons will serve you well.


So my key things to build against are:
Less vehicles than before
flier spam
lots of cover
bikes and speeders
probably not so much cc

Ok there are two ways of approching a tournament list.

Rock Papper Sciccors Method
This is knowing what the metta is and just building an army to counter it. So at the moment example Grey Knights to deal with Daemons, Nid Spam, and Crons. It would be as many psycannons and warp quake as you could possibly fit.

Min Maxing
So you notice that something is very good in say the Grey Knight book (Dreadknight: Sword, personal teleporter) you take the maximum allocation (3 for under 2K). This is ok but I find these lists very 1 diamentional with usually one game plan.

Balanced
This is my prefered list to my style of play. I usually pick the coolest HQ (In my opinion) and build a list around him which synagises well with each unit but also can deal with the meta (Not destroy it but just beat it if I play well).

Check out http://hammertimewargaming.blogspot.co.uk/

I recently done 2 articles on very basic list building covering balanced lists (The final list does not cover flyer/ anti flyer).

The worrying things is that even 7 months in, there aren't a lot of kill everything, very quickly armies out there,

SW ML Spam is horrible
Cronwing is unpleasant (and hard to deal with a ton of flyers)
Guard and Anything is proving to be hard to beat.

The best thing to do IMHO, is review gaming in your area and see what works.

In my local area, we have 3 gaming clubs and the meta in each is very very different, so a balanced list is probably the best way to go.

Here's a link to the last thread like this:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/499426.page

ghpoobah wrote:
The worrying things is that even 7 months in, there aren't a lot of kill everything, very quickly armies out there,

SW ML Spam is horrible
Cronwing is unpleasant (and hard to deal with a ton of flyers)
Guard and Anything is proving to be hard to beat.

The best thing to do IMHO, is review gaming in your area and see what works.

In my local area, we have 3 gaming clubs and the meta in each is very very different, so a balanced list is probably the best way to go.

There are several Daemons players and a couple Necron airforces in my area. I have no clue/success against either...<shrugs>

The hardest game I've played at 1750 is definitely against Chaos Daemon FMC spam. 2 min units of horrors, fateweaver, 3 flying DP's, 2 heralds on discs, 2 units of flamers. Utter nightmate.

Nice, this is the kind of info and experiences/opinions I was after. Thank you for the links you two!

Lets keep the discussion going =)