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Just a quick question: Does making a power attack cause a warjack to sacrifice all of its other attacks for the round, in the same way as a special action, or is it simply a normal attack (thereby allowing the warjack to spend focus to make additional attacks)? For example, could one slam an enemy warjack with a Hammersmith, use his ability to advance up to the slammed 'jack, and then spend his remaining focus to get in two attacks?

 grayshadow87 wrote:
Just a quick question: Does making a power attack cause a warjack to sacrifice all of its other attacks for the round, in the same way as a special action, or is it simply a normal attack (thereby allowing the warjack to spend focus to make additional attacks)? For example, could one slam an enemy warjack with a Hammersmith, use his ability to advance up to the slammed 'jack, and then spend his remaining focus to get in two attacks?

Power attacks/special attacks BOTH require you to sacrifice INITIAL attacks.

In BOTH cases you may spend focus after the power/special attack to buy additional melee attacks.

Really? I had been under the impression that special attacks took the place of your entire action, much the same way that special actions take the place of a normal action.

 grayshadow87 wrote:
Really? I had been under the impression that special attacks took the place of your entire action, much the same way that special actions take the place of a normal action.

Special actions only take the place of a normal action because the miniatures that have them are unable to "buy" additional attacks without outside help.

Power attacks are special attacks. Special attacks state that they are used instead of your initial attacks, so that is all that they do. You can still buy extra attacks if you have the means to do so.

I think it's because you're confusing special action with
special attack. Special action takes place in place of a
combat action. Special attack is part of a combat action.

So if a Centurion throws up polarity field or whatever it's
called, I do not think it can buy extra attacks. A smiting
Hammersmith, however, should be able to.

 malfred wrote:
I think it's because you're confusing special action with
special attack. Special action takes place in place of a
combat action. Special attack is part of a combat action.

So if a Centurion throws up polarity field or whatever it's
called, I do not think it can buy extra attacks. A smiting
Hammersmith, however, should be able to.

You are correct, a special action replaces the entire action and not just the initial attacks like a special attack does.

I see questions this like this pop up and the issue is that framing it in terms of "Replacing your Attacks" obfuscates the issue a bit.

The issue is that you get an action and you can use that action to:

A) Make initial attacks.
B) Make a special action
C) Make a special attack. (Power Attacks are special attacks)
D) Charge or Run (Using your movement as well). At the end of a charge you can either do A) or if it's listed on a melee weapon C) - in either case one of the attacks generated by that option is a "Charge Attack" that has a boosted damage roll.

In the cases of A,C,D you're explicitly given permission to buy additional attacks afterwards in the case of B) you're prohibited from doing so. At no point in the process are you sacrificing anything to do anything else in the same sense that you say, sacrifice your movement to gain the aim bonus or sacrifice your movement to stand up.. or because you're blind.

You're just selecting from a menu of options on how to use your action. Once you kind of approach all these questions with the above in mind, it becomes much easier to grok out how any particular situation plays out in terms of how many attacks you can make of what type.

Well that's just fantastic. Chongara hit it on the head precisely when mentioning the bit about "replacing your attacks," which is what in general made me think that it was a matter of choosing either basic initial attacks or a special attack.

So, to make sure I understand correctly, am I correct in stating that I could do any of the following:

1) (In this situation, let's pretend that I've somehow used some sort of devilry to give Ironclad four focus) Charge with an Ironclad, make his tremor attack, spend a focus, then make another tremor attack, despite the sheer redundancy of such an action, or

2) Use a Sentinel's strafe attack, spend a focus for another attack, then use strafe again (assuming it is under an effect allowing for an attack above its normal RoF)?

I really feel downright silly for having overlooked this particular rule for this long, and I appreciate everyone's help in explaining the issue.

 grayshadow87 wrote:
Well that's just fantastic. Chongara hit it on the head precisely when mentioning the bit about "replacing your attacks," which is what in general made me think that it was a matter of choosing either basic initial attacks or a special attack.

So, to make sure I understand correctly, am I correct in stating that I could do any of the following:

1) (In this situation, let's pretend that I've somehow used some sort of devilry to give Ironclad four focus) Charge with an Ironclad, make his tremor attack, spend a focus, then make another tremor attack, despite the sheer redundancy of such an action, or

2) Use a Sentinel's strafe attack, spend a focus for another attack, then use strafe again (assuming it is under an effect allowing for an attack above its normal RoF)?

I really feel downright silly for having overlooked this particular rule for this long, and I appreciate everyone's help in explaining the issue.

1) No. It's important to remember that making a special attack is one of the options you can do with your action. If you don't have an action to use up you can't, use a special attack. "Buying additional Attacks" does just that, buy more (normal) attacks. It doesn't give you more actions, so you can't make more special attacks. An

This is again where the framing of something as "Replacing Attacks" is problematic. If special attacks replace initials it makes sense that you might be able to replace them with further special attacks. however special attacks do not replace initials, it's just another use of the action.


2) Again see 1). You don't get more actions here.


As a side note: I see you saying get "4 Focus on an Iron Clad" which seems to imply you're spending focus to use Tremor. You don't need to spend focus on 'Jack to make a special attack. The only reason you use focus to make power attacks (which are special attacks), is because they say you do.

Special Actions and Power Attacks make you lose your initial attacks. You can purchase additional attacks afterwards.

In the case of the Hammersmith however, its a Chain Attack which just happens if you fulfil the requirement. This Slam doesn't at up your activation, its free if you hit with the two initial attacks.

Aha! I think I've got it now. I misread your earlier post, which in turn led to my misunderstanding of how this all worked.

Thanks for the help.

 grayshadow87 wrote:
Aha! I think I've got it now. I misread your earlier post, which in turn led to my misunderstanding of how this all worked.

Thanks for the help.

No problem. As always remember model-specific rules always take place over the regular rules. So as grey templar mentioned in the case of the hammer smith chain attack just kind of lets you make that one free slam even though you used your initials.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Special Actions and Power Attacks make you lose your initial attacks. You can purchase additional attacks afterwards.

Just to reinstate: you CANNOT purchase additional attacks after making a Special Action because the Special Action replaces the entire combat action. You can, however, buy additional attacks after performing a Special Attack.