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Trying to find a good balanced list that doesn't rely on Psykers as much as my last list.

Core List (remains the same):

Flyrant w/ TL Devourers, Wings, Old Adversary (Army Warlord)
Flyrant w/ TL Devourers, Wings, Hive Commander

1 Doom in Pod
2 Hiveguard
2 Hiveguard

1 Tervigon, Cluster Spines, Catalyst, TS
1 Tervigon, Cluster Spines, Catalyst
10 Termagant
10 Termagant

1 Carnifex w/ TL Devourers in Pod
1 Carnifex w/ TL Devourers in Pod

Skyshield Landing Pad

Option 1:
+1 Hiveguard per Brood (2x3)

Option 2:
+1 Brood of 10 Termagants
First Tervigon gets Scything Talons and AG (Can outflank w/ Hive Commander upgrade)
Second Tervigon gets TS and AG
Second Flyrant gets Old Adversary

Hiveguard. Every list needs moar hiveguard

Eh, I'd go with bulking up those units of termagants first. Hive guard are great, but two 10-man squads is really just free kill points. I usually try to run 2 squads of as many as I can afford(10~15) with devourers in a spore with cluster spines. It boosts the cost a lot, but it makes them actually useful.

I'm not a fan of bulking up on Termagants. If they get close to killing the entire unit, just run them out of LOS and save the KP. If you add additional gants, you are literally throwing points away.

Also, you talk about giving away free points, but you suggest throwing T3, 6+ Sv gants in a drop pod next to their army? Devilgants are a 'One and Done' unit. They kill whatever you drop next to and then they die. I'd rather do that with a Carnifex with T6, 3+ Sv, W4 MC. Small guns and blasts don't hurt him as much, and if they are shooting their high Str weapons on him, I have another fex 12 inches away. Plus 2 flyrants that are going to be in range that turn as well. Devilgants... That's a free kill point. Vanilla gaunts can LOS on my board half. Good luck killing 1-2 gants out of LOS or on my Landing Pad.

If you are avoiding the Psycher list, I like option 2 best. Iwould add the extra 10 guants in packs of 5 to the existing broods and use them as a DS barrier, and thanks to the new wound allocation FAQ keep them nice and strung out to make it really hard to kill them all in one go. Though I find it does take more than around of fire or more than just one unit to remove a 15 bug brood.

I think the other important thing to note is that if you opponent wants to get 1st blood, he'll be able to get it with either of those gant units. So I would play into the fact that you're down 1 vp in kill point missions.

That doesn't necessarily mean that you're at a disadvantage though, that means that your opponent had to designate 2+ units to kill off your 1.

= Longer Tervigon lives.

That being said, I'd still go with option 2. I'm still not convinced on Hive Guard's effectiveness

I go back and forward on 4 Zoanthropes or 4 hiveguard on my lists daily...

Tonight I'm going to a FLGS that I usually don't go to because I'm meeting up with an Eldar player. I'm going to play the Zoanthropes and see how much I get "pooped" on from his 3D6 pskyer tests. And fortune on 3+ Cover Save speedbikes (without Hiveguard) and see how well I do. If it's close, I might just keep the Zoanthropes in. I believe the 4 zoanthropes are better and give me more options against any army BUT eldar. So if I manage my own against the Eldar, I'll stick with the 4 zoans. If I don't do so well, I'll consider 2 Hive/2 Zoans, or 4 Hiveguard as this list suggested!

And I don't see the FAQ responses about allocation, this is the second time you mentioned it though. If I didn't go first, my termagants are going in the landing pad. That being said, my flyrants are his number one target on turn 1. Most likely, or the 4 zoanthropes off the pad (with 3++ anyway). Either way it's 4++ or better. Good luck getting FB.

Saythings wrote:
I go back and forward on 4 Zoanthropes or 4 hiveguard on my lists daily...

Tonight I'm going to a FLGS that I usually don't go to because I'm meeting up with an Eldar player. I'm going to play the Zoanthropes and see how much I get "pooped" on from his 3D6 pskyer tests. And fortune on 3+ Cover Save speedbikes (without Hiveguard) and see how well I do. If it's close, I might just keep the Zoanthropes in. I believe the 4 zoanthropes are better and give me more options against any army BUT eldar. So if I manage my own against the Eldar, I'll stick with the 4 zoans. If I don't do so well, I'll consider 2 Hive/2 Zoans, or 4 Hiveguard as this list suggested!

And I don't see the FAQ responses about allocation, this is the second time you mentioned it though. If I didn't go first, my termagants are going in the landing pad. That being said, my flyrants are his number one target on turn 1. Most likely, or the 4 zoanthropes off the pad (with 3++ anyway). Either way it's 4++ or better. Good luck getting FB.

Here you go fromt he BRB FAQ:

Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.

Short version is now a hail of bolter fire won't wipe out a large gaunt brood just becuase you had a couple quants in range of a bolter squad. Check out the YMDC thread for the details on the change.

Saved my guant broods twice against a DE/Eldar list over the weekend.

Thanks! Playing Eldar/CSM tonight! I'll be sure to keep this in mind!

Saythings wrote:
I'm not a fan of bulking up on Termagants. If they get close to killing the entire unit, just run them out of LOS and save the KP. If you add additional gants, you are literally throwing points away.

Also, you talk about giving away free points, but you suggest throwing T3, 6+ Sv gants in a drop pod next to their army? Devilgants are a 'One and Done' unit. They kill whatever you drop next to and then they die. I'd rather do that with a Carnifex with T6, 3+ Sv, W4 MC. Small guns and blasts don't hurt him as much, and if they are shooting their high Str weapons on him, I have another fex 12 inches away. Plus 2 flyrants that are going to be in range that turn as well. Devilgants... That's a free kill point. Vanilla gaunts can LOS on my board half. Good luck killing 1-2 gants out of LOS or on my Landing Pad.

Except the gaunts are a required unit. If they're there, you might as well have them accomplish something. Devilgants will more often than not get their KP back, while a squad of 10 gants will get one-shotted by most units, not giving you a chance to run or hide the remainder of the unit. It's not a necessity either way, though. Generally for holding objectives I just use spawned gants.

For troop tervigons you have to buy termagants, so why not make them useful. Devourers do have the advantage of an additional 6" range as well as the extra shots. Makes them much more adaptable .. and they can glance rear armour on most vehciles being S4.