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Maybe the Cabal were the ones played by the Legion, with their spies in other Legions I can't imagine that they were unaware of Horus's plans and the Chaos Gods, my guess is if anything the Cabal only convinced the Alpha Legion that Chaos would have to be the new path for humanity since the foul Xenos seem to hate it so much, Lorgar seemed to pick up on this when he mentioned to the Alpha Legion that the Imperium under Horus would take a tougher stance on Aliens and Omegan through the cabal representative out the air lock getting rid the the "troublesome Alien". It seems pretty absurd that the Alpharius really thought the Emperor would want Humanity wiped out, I he had a simalar train of thought as Lorgar and figured the Emperor was leading the human species to its grave and Chaos was the only way to survive the onslaught of Aliens, given the appearence of the Necrons and the Tyranids maybe he was right.


Your Thoughts

The Alpha Legion is in it only for themselves. Not humanity, not Chaos, not Horus, not the Emperor. The Alpha Legion will use anything it can use to make themselves the ultimate power in the galaxy.


This is why they sometimes use Chaos forces like demons and become Daemon princes but kept things hidden from Horus making his job much harder

Is: "Other, the modern Alpha Legion fluff is awful" an answer?


I prefer to stick with the original Alpha Legion fluff where Horus convinces Alpharius to side with him because Alpharius trusts him more than the Emperor he barely knew, and fighting against the loyal Space Marines was a brand new and exciting challenge for the Alpha Legion.

Is: "Other, the modern Alpha Legion fluff is awful" an answer?

yea but we are stuck with it no matter if we like it or not, I agree Legion was god awefull, Deliverance lost was damage control. They've done some Legions great in the HH novels like the World Eaters, Word Bearers, Night Lords, and Sons of Horus, but some horribly like the Alpha Legion and the Emperors Children.

Neither.

Alpha legion couldn't of cared less about Chaos. It was just an excuse to throw off the shackles of the Imperium and do their own thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:

Is: "Other, the modern Alpha Legion fluff is awful" an answer?

yea but we are stuck with it no matter if we like it or not, I agree Legion was god awefull, Deliverance lost was damage control. They've done some Legions great in the HH novels like the World Eaters, Word Bearers, Night Lords, and Sons of Horus, but some horribly like the Alpha Legion and the Emperors Children.

I 100% completely agree with you. AL and EC have been short changed on the quality of their plot lines.

Personally, I thought Legion was the best Horus Heresy book so far. i think that Alpharius's intentions are hard to determine at the end of the book, and deliberately so. We as the audience are supposed to be left with doubt as to his motivations, but clarity as to the result. I think Dan Abnett did an absolutely phenomenal job of giving the Alpha Legion a unique sense of mystery, born in part from the Legion's lack of any real niche within the Imperium. I've heard people argue that the Legion was going Chaos no matter what, I've heard people claim that they were swayed by the Cabal's argument and trying to save the galaxy, and I've heard that they were deliberately trying to orchestrate some kind of middle ground. Abnett not only manages to deliver us a group of protagonists with undefined motives, but at the same time manages to show us a very defined end result, which is something that few authors can do successfully. And really, I'm all for any effort to take one of the Chaos Legions and give them some kind of depth, rather than leaving them as the nonsensical caricatures that most of them are by default. (Aaron Dembski-Bowden is also really good at doing this.)

That's just my opinion, though, and I can at least recognize that I'm in the minority on the topic.

Alpha Legion are the worst part of the recent fluff. Inserting them into everything with some super-secretive nefarious plan really cheapens the setting.

Alpharius and Omegon are idiots for listening to such blatant lies from xenos.

The cabal presented 2 choices, and the both sucked. I believe the AL strived to create a 3rd option.

A result different from those presented. A galactic balancing act if you will, where in the long run, where neither side wins.

After all 'War is just the galaxies hygiene'

How about a fourth option: kill the Cabal, remain loyal to the Emperor, defeat Horus, and continue the plan.

Ummm... Both:

Recent Horus Heresy novels appear to display a 'split' within the Legion, particularly in The Serpent Beneath (The Primarchs) and this is the interpretation I currently follow.

At the end of this story, Omegon mentions "The Third Paradox" presented in the vision/"acuity" shown to them by the Cabal. The first two paradoxi (everything sounds better plural with 'i') are that the Emperor will live and the Imperium will stagnate and succumb to Chaos, dooming the galaxy, or that Horus will win, realise what he's done and destroy humanity and Chaos, saving the galaxy. Obviously, it's suggested that Alpharius and Omegon accepted this and so followed Horus to try and save the galaxy and destroy Chaos, acknowledging that although they are turning against the Emperor, The Emperor's main aim was to destroy Chaos.

What then, is the third paradox?To me, the third paradox is that they are wrong to fight Chaos - both the Cabal and the Emperor - and that Chaos should be embraced, rather than destroyed. Humanity can unite under Chaos and grow powerful as a result. What if Chaos is the only way for humanity to survive in the galaxy, the only way to overcome the Tyranids, the Necrontyr, the Orks and the Young Races?

...

Additionally, when conversing with the cabal after being presented the vision/acuity, it was Alpharius, not Omegon, who did most of the talking and proclaimed their loyalty to the Emperor's main aim of destroying Chaos.

So whilst Alpharius was seeking to support Horus, Omegon instead may sought to have him fail (The Serpent Beneath). Afterall, how can two brothers, of such power as Alpharius and Omegon, remain on the same level, the same path through life, when all around them their brothers turn against one another? It's hard to see them remaining united in such a way, when all around them turns to chaos.
'[Trust] is most precious - and strongest - when it occurs naturally. Like between brothers,' Alpharius said.
'Tell that to Horus,' Omegon muttered.
'Fair point,' he conceded, 'Trust can be hard to come by, even amongst the closest of kin,' Alpharius let the point hang between them before moving on.
From The Primarchs

They are all crazy madmans now, does it really matter what was their original objective?

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
They are all crazy madmans now, does it really matter what was their original objective?

Because the OP asked?

 Just Dave wrote:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
They are all crazy madmans now, does it really matter what was their original objective?

Because the OP asked?

And he got his answer: crazy men defies logic and reason.
What was their real motive back then was lost in the midst of their insanity.

Personally I imagined Alpharius followed the Cabal until the Horus Heresy failed and then realized that something was wrong. After that, the legion just fell apart. Alpharius may or may not have been killed, Omegon is up to god knows what and different parts of the Alpha Legion have turned to chaos, while others simply act as renegades.
Just my 2 cents

They thought Horus was better suited to lead the Imperium.

2nd Ed Chaos codex:
"When Horus made his pact with Chaos the martial pride of the Alpha Legion was their downfall. The Warmaster was a mighty warrior himself, he commanded armies and fleets and fought at the forefront of the Emperor's wars. By comparison he made the distant Emperor on Terra seem a weak and cowardly individual. The Warmaster was a leader worthy of their respect, the Emperor sought only to exploit Horus's conquests and crush the liberated humans of the galaxy beneath his stifling regime. So the lies were insinuated into the hearts and minds of the Alpha Legion, and if any lie is repeated often enough it begins to be accepted, and once accepted it becomes true."

They thought Horus was better suited to lead the Imperium.

I like the old fluff but where stuck with the new stuff and we have to make the most out of it.

What was their real motive back then was lost in the midst of their insanity.

They seem like a sane lot to me.

Cabal's argument and trying to save the galaxy,

I don't see how wiping the galaxy clean of human life to save the Eldar is saving the galaxy or in anyway doing what the Emperor would have wanted, if he did want that then the Horus was just all the more justified. Legion just made me like Chaos more considering that Aliens who see humans as parasites are so scared of it.

The Cabal duped them. Perhaps the Cabal itself was lead astray. Chaos cannot be destroyed as it rests at the heart of every sentient species.

I have trouble believing that two Primarchs would be duped by a council of Aliens.

 KingDeath wrote:
The Cabal duped them. Perhaps the Cabal itself was lead astray. Chaos cannot be destroyed as it rests at the heart of every sentient species.

This is arguable, as Chaos didn't exist prior to the War in Heaven. AFAIK, the Warp was quite calm back then.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 KingDeath wrote:
The Cabal duped them. Perhaps the Cabal itself was lead astray. Chaos cannot be destroyed as it rests at the heart of every sentient species.

This is arguable, as Chaos didn't exist prior to the War in Heaven. AFAIK, the Warp was quite calm back then.

And yet the first (known) major war in the galaxy managed to undo this. As long as there is sentient life there will be war and conflict. There is no escape, especialy not since there are now unimaginably powerful gods who further the very emotions on which they feed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:
I have trouble believing that two Primarchs would be duped by a council of Aliens.

Why? Because they are primarchs? We have seen them doing some pretty stupid things. Getting duped by an ancient group of aliens wouldn't be the most stupid of errors a primarch made.
Of course, since the Cabal's advice was useless to begin with it is imo much more likely that the Cabal made a serious mistake. After all, it was Alpharius's defection which helped to create the
worst case scenario.

Bottom line - we don't know what's going on, because we don't have enough info.

Although don't forget that the Legion has already been shown acting against the interests of the Cabal - as in when they spaced one of the little buggers!

Though clearly there's no way in hell the BL authors are going to miss out on a chance to have the only true brothers duke it out in a battle between all the other 'brothers'!

 Alpharius wrote:


Although don't forget that the Legion has already been shown acting against the interests of the Cabal - as in when they spaced one of the little buggers!

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Faith in the Alpha Legion...RESTORED!

EDIT: No seriously. Xenos are garbage as far as I'm concerned. For me, even the Forces of Chaos (the Human ones at least) are a step up from them.

My opinion is they were just using the cabal like they use everyone.

 Galdos wrote:
The Alpha Legion is in it only for themselves. Not humanity, not Chaos, not Horus, not the Emperor. The Alpha Legion will use anything it can use to make themselves the ultimate power in the galaxy.


This is why they sometimes use Chaos forces like demons and become Daemon princes but kept things hidden from Horus making his job much harder

Pretty much this after the visions of the Cabal

I wish we could just go back to the old fluff, it was better, I can't stress enough how I hated Legion

I can't stress enough how many people I've seen refer to Legion as one of their favourite BL novels...

Yep, Legion was a nice change from the usual stories about armies of roided up marines slaughtering everything. A focus on a normal army regiment and plenty of enigmatic characters felt completely at odds with the usual BL fare.

I finished Legion yesterday and it was one of my favourite HH novels so far, the whole "I am Alpharius" thing was great (and new to me as I had never read much about the Alpha Legion).

I enjoyed their portrayal in the sense that they would use Guardsmen as pawns in their game, asserting their superiority over the main body of the army.

However, my opinion is based on the book alone having no knowledge of other pre-established fluff, perhaps that makes mine a less bias opinion of the book?

 caminacambob wrote:
I finished Legion yesterday and it was one of my favourite HH novels so far, the whole "I am Alpharius" thing was great (and new to me as I had never read much about the Alpha Legion).

I enjoyed their portrayal in the sense that they would use Guardsmen as pawns in their game, asserting their superiority over the main body of the army.

However, my opinion is based on the book alone having no knowledge of other pre-established fluff, perhaps that makes mine a less bias opinion of the book?

Could be, though the biggest complaints have no nothing to do with the original fluff (except that it contradicts it)