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Hey all, I have a question about the special rule "Merciless Fighters" for the Sons of Horus Legion in the Betrayal Book.
The question concerns models armed with weapons with the "Unwieldy" USR.

From the "Merciless Fighters" rule, if the Sons of Horus infantry models out number the enemy

...during Initiative Step 1 of the Fight sub phase, then each model with this rule that has already fought may make a single additional attack.

The question is, because the rule states "during" Initiative Step 1 and not the start of the step, do we resolve attacks at I1 first before resolving the Merciless Fighters rule or do we resolve Merciless Fighters and then make the I1 attacks?
Does it come down to the player whose turn it is to decide the order to resolve this?

I've no doubt missed an obvious answer to this in the main rulebook but I don't see anything that indicates if Initiative Step attacks take precedence over special rules though again I may just be missing something.
I'd greatly appreciate any insight on this matter.

No, during Initiative Step 1 means you make the attack at Initiative Step 1...

So to really answer your question, no getting an extra attack with a Power fist through use of this rule. :-)

Thanks for your response guys. Would you mind taking a look at the following scenario and let me know how you would handle it?

Sons of Horus assault squad in combat with Power Fist Terminators. The assault squad has made all their attacks at I4. Initiative Step 1 rolls around and the Assault Squad outnumbers the Terminators but the Terminators have a chance to reduce the Assault Squad's numbers to the point where they do not outnumber them.

So the question is, when the I1 step begins do you check if the Assault Squad outnumbers the Terminators immediately or do the Terminators make their attacks first then you check? As far as I know they both happen at the same time which is where the problem lies. The SoH player wants to resolve "Merciless Fighters" first while the other player would rather makes his Terminator attacks first.

Both happen "during" initiative step 1. So which resolves first?

The way I would resolve it is by saying that even if the Terminators were to attack first, the Sons of Horus would still "outnumber the enemy during initiative step 1" - specifically, at the very start. Regardless, I would treat it exactly as an attack made at I1, thus striking simultaneously with the Terminators.

My interpretation is that initiative steps are simultaneous events, just like the shots from a single unit's shooting attacks, I would even extend this to special rules that occur during an initiative step.

Thus, you determine outnumbering much the same as you determine how many attacks you are making during that initiative step, right at the beginning, and it doesn't matter if you let your opponent resolve his attacks first, dead models still count as alive till the end of that initiative step, and so you continue to outnumber your opponent, and the slain models still get to make an attack.

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:
The way I would resolve it is by saying that even if the Terminators were to attack first, the Sons of Horus would still "outnumber the enemy during initiative step 1" - specifically, at the very start. Regardless, I would treat it exactly as an attack made at I1, thus striking simultaneously with the Terminators.

Thanks very much for your explanation. I think I've been seeing these additional attacks as taking place separate to regular attacks or essentially not being I1 attacks. (Similar to Mind Shackle or Armour of Shrieking Souls hits, which are of course not "Additional attacks" at all)

Looking at it now after your arguments I can see that was the wrong way of looking at it. Thanks for your input guys.

Sorry for the bump but it looks like this question was addressed in the latest Forgeworld FAQ just released: FAQ

Q: Concerning the Merciless Fighters rule for the Sons of Horus Legion. If the Sons of Horus
units are equipped with Unwieldy weapons and thus would attack in Initiative step 1, do these
models get extra attacks when outnumbering their opponents? Also, how are these ‘mixed’
Initiative step 1 attacks resolved?
A: Models with Unwieldy weapons do not qualify for extra attacks from the Merciless Fighters rule
(as they have not already fought previously as described in the rule).
In terms of the order of resolution, resolve any attacks made by models with Unwieldy weapons after
working out whether the opponent has been outnumbered by the Sons of Horus and making any extra
Merciless Fighter attacks as part of Initiative step 1.