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I'll be competing in my first tournament in a few weeks and I could use some advice on my list. Its still a WIP, but I'm limited by the models I have ready (45 terminators 30 tacticals, 30 bikes, not much else).

ATM it consists of:

Belial
-Sword

10 man DW squad
-2 AC

7 man DW squad
-AC

7 man DW squad
-AC

7 man Tac squad
-ML w/ flak

7 man Tac squad
-ML w/ flak

7 man Tac squad
-ML w/ flak

Aegis Defense line
-Quad gun



I've had some success with this list so far (2-0), but only against shooting heavy armies in multiple objective games where I can keep my opponent busy in his own backfield until it's too late for him to claim the objectives he needs. I tried it with a divination librarian, but didn't feel that he was particularly useful (especially as he was stuck in the backfield due to a lack of TDA).

Side note: The squads are all 7 man because I find 5 or 6 too flimsy and 10 to bulky, not out of some devotion to Nurgle.

So, basically, I want to know what people think of it and whether anyone thinks it has any major weaknesses to some of the more powerful builds I'm likely to face in a tournament setting.

Thanks

A question, Do you deepstrike your 10men DW squads/Belial and foot slogs the 7men DW?

I'd consider dropping two DW from each of the 7man squads and getting a rifledread. It stands a decent chance of hitting a flyer and maybe putting a hullpoint on them

Id go all deathwing. Drop the tacs and aegis they don't fit with belial. I personaly think 31 terminators deepstriking turn 1 all with FnP is the way to go with belial.

Sorry but I don't think DW are competitive in a tourney environment since they don't bring enough bodies and easily expose you to the extreme fickleness of lady luck(dice gods).

I'd dump Belial and the termies for a unit of DWK for shock, a couple dreads with AC/AC arms for anti-air, a couple cheap libbies for Divination and more tactical squads that can be combat squaded. For more killy, get the much more costs effective devastators and park them with one of the libbies for carnage.

Yes all DW is problematic in a tournament but if you're taking Belial then it is the best use of him. I think all FnP DW could be viable due to the massed twinlinked alphastrike. But low model count means one bad dice roll can end your hopes.

Am I missing something? Where are you getting fnp for the entire army? Standard of Fortitude give fnp for units within 12"....

I think that it looks like a pretty well designed DW-focused list, though the viability of DW lists themselves is fair to question. Don't make the mistake of trying to rely on a non-Skyfire twin-AC Dread to deal with flyers, that's a terrible idea, and you should be well covered with the choices that you've made in that regard.

I play this list differently against different armies. If my opponent has a defensive army (aka lots of long-range shooting), I deepstrike into his backfield with the big squad first turn and bring down my other squads in the same area (sometimes using Belial's teleport homer) later on in the game. If my opponent is likely to be in my face, I usually deploy my other terminators in my backfield and wait for him to come to me.

I know that it's not the most competitive army my codex can offer, but I like the versatility it offers. I like that it's entirely troops and that each squad has a designated role (backfield holder or frontline pusher) but can, in need, act differently (Terminators can be great defenders as well). I also like that its not as bland as the pure deathwing army that I used to run.

I'd run a Rifledread if I had one, but I can't source one in the time left, and besides, I like having no vehicles at all.
I also don't have the models to run a tactical heavy list (although I might buy some devastators, they're looking pretty good).

morearti wrote:
Am I missing something? Where are you getting fnp for the entire army? Standard of Fortitude give fnp for units within 12"....

2 10man squads command squad and a 7-8 man squad then you ds in belial and command so he's within 12" of each. That gives you about a 26" bubble with a terminator base so your army does even need to be bunched up.

 FlingitNow wrote:

morearti wrote:
Am I missing something? Where are you getting fnp for the entire army? Standard of Fortitude give fnp for units within 12"....

2 10man squads command squad and a 7-8 man squad then you ds in belial and command so he's within 12" of each. That gives you about a 26" bubble with a terminator base so your army does even need to be bunched up.

Nice. I will have to try this.

So, say that I take your advice and make a pure deathwing list, it comes to a total of 33 bodies which doesn't seem like enough even if I am keeping them close enough for a 2+/5++/5+++. That also doesn't seem like enough to handle more than 2 or so objectives, let alone half a dozen (although it would be pretty good for killpoints.)

With that in mind, the fact that pure DW isn't very survivable is pretty clear. But is my original idea (cheaper tacticals to make up numbers) any good?

Thanks.

I am wondering the same thing about Tactical Squads and Devastator Squads in DW lists. Why doesn't a solid 10-man squad with heavy and special weapon support holding an objective in power armor not mix well with a ton of terminators in the front field pushing?

Do people think it would work better if I threw in the Dev squad I have?

That would make it

Belial

10 man DW squad
-3 TH/SS
-2 AC

7 man DW squad
- TH/SS
-AC

7 man DW squad
- TH/SS
-AC

7 man Tac Squad
-ML w/ Flak

7 man Tac Squad
-ML w/ Flak

5 man Dev Squad
- 2 Lascannons
- 2 ML

Aegis Defense Line
-Quad Gun

I like Tac squads... The quad gun is also a good anti-air. Have you considered the DW command squad?

So you think you need more bodies so you've got 25 terminators plus 19 more models with no FnP plus you're anchoring half your army in backfield giving flyers more to shoot rather than 33 FnP 2+ save models. I don't see how your army list is more survivable than pure deathwing? So I don't see how this list really counters the weakness of DW? It just seems to dilute its strengths.

Just to be clear: the only way to get 33 FNP models is to all models be within 12" of the standard of fortitude model. That might not be the best strategy. That might not be even possible.


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I guess... if one term from each model is within 12" of the standard that's one way of doing it...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why even deep strike if your just going to drop Belail in the middle of everyone so the banner doesn't scatter...

You deepstrike for 3 reasons:

1. You get the alphastrike. For low model count armies this is important
2. Vengeful strike. Twinlinked for a turns shooting for the entire army.
3. Position. It enables you to start closer to the enemy if you need to, like against gunlines and flyer lists.

So, the points made here and an absolute thrashing on the table by a Chaos Marines/Demons army has forced me to reconsider my list.

My problem with the 33 terminator list is that it gives me 5 units (minus 1 if you include Belial), which means that half of my army has to start on the board (as opposed to half the units, which isn't the same thing). This means that between 12 and 17 terminators are walking, which severely limits my options vis a vis FNP bubbles. In order to use such a list to maximum defensive potential, I'm ceding control of at least half the board, so I'd better hope there aren't too many objectives.

That said, my first instinct (to add more PA troops) has taken a bit of a blow in light of recent events (which include a deadly alphastrike: heldrake + outflankers + soulgrinder all arriving simultaneously within a foot of each other). So I'm not sure what to do.

There is mo restriction on how many units can start on the board. Nor is there a restriction on how many units you can DWA with. There is ONLY a restriction on how many units you can put in reserve when deploying your army. DWA happens long before this. Id DWA the entire army turn 1.

Is this settled? I was under the impression that DWA units counted as reserved!

No you just declare DWA after warlord traits. Otherwise declaring DWA makes you go first if you count it as deployment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even if you count DWA as deployment not only can you still reserve your entire army (half at DWA and half again when deploying your army so the 2nd half is normal DS). But you always get the choice of who goes first. Where as not counting DWA as deploying your army causes no problems and makes DW viable.

 Gul_Tekar wrote:
Is this settled? I was under the impression that DWA units counted as reserved!

It is by no means settled. Actually, FlingitNow is in the vast minority on the opinion that you can fully DWA your army. So for now, it'd be safe to assume you can not.

I would agree with the above until a FAQ is out, DWA doesnt say it ignores the reserves rule nor does it mention that DWA your whole army for turn 2 means you auto lose, as the option is there to chose which turn you DWA it is different to the old deathwing rules imo.

why not DWA the guys you have to walk first turn, and others come in on reserves?