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Before the 6th ed Flying rules came into play, Dakkajets could purchase Fighta Ace to get BS3 against other fliers since they were called Skimmers back then.

However, going over the FAQ, i dont see anything saying Fighta Ace gives this bonus to Fliers, since the FAQ says "change type to flier" not add the type.
Am i missing something and dakkajets still get BS3 against other planes with this upgrade, or did we get jipped?

Depends on who you play.

Most folks are fine with it including flyers. It was pretty clearly intended to. My local FLGS houserules it this way, as do most folk i've played against since 6th.

RAW-wise it doesn't include them though, so you may find yourself jipped against some people.


*** PDF codex may have different rules. I think i heard of this discrepancy with the Digital codex including flyers.. Something to check. **

meh i might as well leave them off.
My nids friend loves double force so i figured i'd throw together a 2k list just to shut him up. He loves flying hive tyrants, but thats the only reason i'd want the fighta ace so meh.

Planning to take a crapton of lootas too, hes not goin to like me lol. Also weirdboys.

Wow, that's interesting. Honestly ever since 6th Edition came out we'd been treating Fighta Ace as though it is supposed to work against Flyers. I never noticed that it wasn't officially FAQed to do this. I always take Fighta Ace against my friend's Tyranids.

If you have success against the Flying Hive Tyrants, let me know. I'm currently getting absolutely destroyed by them.

My friend routinely takes two of them, both with two twin-linked Devourers. Then he gets Psychic Powers for them, so I'm routinely dealing with Hive Tyrants that have Endurance or Iron Arm or both. So Hive Tyrants that have Feel no Pain, and/or are Toughness 7-9. It's ridiculous.

As Orks, the only thing I've been able to do is keep shooting it until I knock it out of the sky, and then shoot the crap out of it or Assault it once it's on the ground. If my opponent is lucky on his Grounding rolls, I just can't kill them. They're too big a target to ignore, and by themselves can wipe out almost my entire army. Even Battlewagons can't stand up to them. The Hive Tyrant is so maneuverable it's almost impossible to position yourself so that the Hive Tyrant can't get side armor shots on you. With 12 twin-linked S6 shots, he's likely to get at least a few glancing shots. With two Tyrants, he's got a good chance to glance a Battlewagon to death in one turn. I've had that happen to me many times, even with a KFF. Dakkajets aren't even a sure thing. The Supa Shootas are only S6, meaning you're only wounding on 4's (or worse if he has Iron Arm) and the Tyrant still gets a 3+ armor save and maybe a 5+ Feel No Pain roll from Endurance or nearby Tervigons. In return, the Hive Tyrant can probably kill your Dakkajet in one turn.

I've tried Lootas, Dakkajets, the Ageis Quad Gun, Battlewagons loaded with Rokkits. They can suck up the firepower of my entire army and it's still hard to bring them down.

Im being a douche against him, havent done it yet but plan to next time i face him.

6 dakkajets w/ supa shoota, 720pts
3x 10 lootas, 450pts
2x Warpheads
However many boyz i can squeeze in there. I think i threw an ADL with grots manning a quad too, dont have the list i cooped up around me and i cant remember it lol.

Thats a TON of long-range attacks that can actually hurt those things, even if his Endurance makes him T9 which is total bs....

It works. Digital dex which is the only valid 6th edition version of the ork flyer rules says that fights ace works against flyers. They don't usually FAQ items in the 6th edition digital dexes, they just updated marines and necrons and said "too bad" to people expecting FAQ erratas.

You can pretend digital dexes don't exist, but the digital dex is the most recent printing so my dakkajets hit flyers at BS3.

Problem is, that doesn't fly when you have the paper dex and faq only.

Telling them it's true in the digi-dex won't do much good if they can't see it for themselves.

Unless you have the digital dex, and something to carry it about on, you are officially SOL.

nkelsch wrote:
It works. Digital dex which is the only valid 6th edition version of the ork flyer rules says that fights ace works against flyers. They don't usually FAQ items in the 6th edition digital dexes, they just updated marines and necrons and said "too bad" to people expecting FAQ erratas.

Not true. Necron Night Scythes being the most recent example.

 Ascalam wrote:
Problem is, that doesn't fly when you have the paper dex and faq only.

Telling them it's true in the digi-dex won't do much good if they can't see it for themselves.

Unless you have the digital dex, and something to carry it about on, you are officially SOL.

No, not really... Because the contents of the digital dex have been confirmed by almost 100% of tourney organizers, gaming clubs and FLGS as well as the online community... And I do have the digital Dex for dakkajets. So it is easy enough to confirm the contents, the same way hyper phase swords couldn't be axes even though the FAQ wasn't updated. You have to be gaming in a pretty dank festering hole to not have people who can confirm the digital dex contents.

Denying the digital dex exists because it is not in the FAQ has no "official standing" as the digital dex is just as official as the real dex and there is no such RAW definition that only the FAQ is binding. If you are going to pretend things don't exist to win games, then the game ends...

Pasted directly from the iBook! It even adds all the shenanigans upon pasting!

“Fighta Ace: When shooting at Flying Monstrous Creatures, Jetbikes or vehicles with either the Flyer or Skimmer type, a Dakkajet with the Fighta Ace upgrade is treated as being Ballistic Skill 3.”

Excerpt From: Workshop, Games. “Chapter Approved: Ork Bommer.” Games Workshop, 2012. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Check out this book on the iBookstore: https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/chapter-approved-ork-bommer/id537254961?mt=11

Perhaps you missed my point,

I don't deny that the digidex exists, or that it says dakkajets can shoot up fliers with Fighta Ace.

What i'm saying is that if you don't have the digidex, and you're in a game with someone who doesn't either (assume not at a tournament here.. Tournament play is not the whole of the hobby, and the likelyhood of someone having the digidex to hand is far higher) you are SOL.

If you are in a pick-up game at the FLGS and someone asks to see the rule, where does that leave you?

Not every player is part of the online community, or familiar with Orks. Hell, i'm the only Ork player in my FLGS most of the time.

Going Strict RAW by the FAQ and the WD with the rules in, it doesn't apply to Flyers.

Going by the Digidex it does.

My FLGS doesn't have the Digidex. They just Houseruled it that way, as it makes sense.

I'm not arguing that it shouldn't apply to flyers. Quite the opposite. What i'm saying is that the WD and FAQ don't support this officially, ruleswise.

I even stated upthread that the Digidex rule is different. Perhaps you can quote me where i said the digidex doesn't exist? I'll wait.

Not having access to the official rules or ignoring they exist doesn't make it RAW.

WD is 5th edition rules and are obsolete. The only valid rules for the dakkajet is the digidex. That is the only valid RAW.

How is not having the official rules any different than people not having the FW rules or not having the codex? I thou don't have the rules for your model, or have an out of date codex, you need to obtain the current rules...

If you don't have it or don't have access to it, you don't have the ability to use the model period... Unless you are reasonable and make an effort to find out how your 5th edition. Publication is out of date by finding out what the only current and valid version of the rules are, the 6th edition digidex.

Claiming printed codexes and FAQs make RAW but digidexes don't is absurd and not supported anywhere by any rules... So it isn't RAW to IG ore the digidex.

There is a real practicality issue with not being able to carry a reputed digidex update to the game store with me if I don't have an Ipad.

They have indeed incorporated such fixes into the FAQs as well before this point; like the Night Scythe one. Hopefully that Dakkajet errata makes it too.

Another email to gamefaqs@gwplc.com...

Until GW release the digidex on another OS there will always be this problem. If I could have the rules on my phone that would be great as that's always with me.

Crying "the Digidex isn't RAW" should be added to the YMTC list as something not to do as it is pointless.

The bottom line is the rule exists in 6th edition regardless if you own the codex or not. So arguing against it because you dislike GW's digidex doesn't have an impact on YMTC rule discussions.

Dozens of people know the rules for codexes they don't own and FAQs they don't have on-hand, and amazingly play by them.

nkelsch wrote:
Not having access to the official rules or ignoring they exist doesn't make it RAW.

WD is 5th edition rules and are obsolete. The only valid rules for the dakkajet is the digidex. That is the only valid RAW.

How is not having the official rules any different than people not having the FW rules or not having the codex? I thou don't have the rules for your model, or have an out of date codex, you need to obtain the current rules...

If you don't have it or don't have access to it, you don't have the ability to use the model period... Unless you are reasonable and make an effort to find out how your 5th edition. Publication is out of date by finding out what the only current and valid version of the rules are, the 6th edition digidex.

Claiming printed codexes and FAQs make RAW but digidexes don't is absurd and not supported anywhere by any rules... So it isn't RAW to IG ore the digidex.

Problem is, there are TWO versions on the RAW

This you seem unable to grasp.

The WD (original rules) were updated with the Errata/FAQ to 6th ed. They are an official update to the existing print-edition codex/WD

The Digidex is ALSO official.

Their rules differ.

Not everyone has the Digidex. Not everyone has something that can run the effing digidex. That's what we rely on the FAQ/Errata for.

I seriously doubt any Ork player would just trot out and buy an Ipad and the digidex just because you claim it to be the only valid version of the rules.

I've not at any point said the digidex isn't RAW, so PLEASE stop trying to tar me with denying the digidex. I'm saying there are basically two versions of the rules for the unit out there right now, and they are both fething valid. The Digidex doesn't supercede the update. They are both current.

The WD rules are under Amendments on the FAQ/Errata. They have been amended to update them to 6th edition rules. They are now 6th ed official rules for this unit, and current. Is this really so difficult?

Since you seem to have difficulty grasping this, however, there isn't much point continuing to discuss it with you.

STOP, you're both right.

Fighta Ace Dakkajets hit other fliers on BS3, end of discussion.

Someone didn't read the thread....

Fighta Ace hits fliers on BS 3 in the Digidex, but not in the FAQ update. Both are official, the rules differ. Declaring it as one over the other and saying end of thread doesn't make it so

Most folk run it as that fighta ace works on flyers, as it makes sense, I've yet to run into anyone who wasn't cool with it.

The point of contention (since solved) is that the digidex says one thing, and the faq another. It was claimed that this makes anything but the digidex invalid and that without the digidex on hand you weren't allowed to use your Bommas, and that I was 'denying the digidex' was official . This was manifestly wrong on all counts.


I'm not interested in arguing it all over again though, so:

There are two current RAW for this. If you own a Digidex your Dakkajet Fighta Aces hit flyers on BS 3, IF you have the WD and FAQ they don't, but most folk will let you anyway.

End of discussion

The most current rules should be used.

The Digidex is the most current, therefore any changes to the normal book should be noted and used in play.

It seems to me that updating a digital codex would be 3x harder than updating a pdf FAQ.

Thanks for fething this up, GW. Thanks a lot.

And if you don't have the digidex?

That doesn't invalidate the Amendment in the FAQ and the WD.

Hell, if you are arguing from 'most recent' the FAQ with the amendment in was last updated Jan 2013, whereas the digital rules for the bomma are July 7th, 2012 If the digidex has had an update in Jan 2013 as well, then they are both current .

The digidex is not mandatory, or they would have simply put 'buy the digidex for updated rules' in the amendment updating them to 6th.

Don't get me wrong here. I prefer the digidex's take on the rule. What i'm saying is that the digidex is not the only official and current rules for the model, and that there is a conflict.

 Ascalam wrote:
And if you don't have the digidex?

What i'm saying is that the digidex is not the only official and current rules for the model, and that there is a conflict.

Yes it is. The most recent printing is the only official and current rules. If you have an older release which conflicts and the FAQ hasn't updated, the newer release trumps the out of date printing.

This is the 2-wound biker issue all over. GW released a batch with 2 wound bikers. GW then fixed it in the re-print. GW failed to address it multiple times in the FAQ/errata.

The newer printing which clearly showed by revision number in the publication was the most recent rules. People (wrongly) argued that by having an old printed codex, and the FAQ hadn't been updated, that they legally bought the advantage of having 2 wound bikers and would play them as such. Some people even went out of their way to buy the OLD codex to gain the advantage and ignored the reprint which was released.

Same deal with Hyperphase swords... Necron codex was a 5th edition rulebook, and when 6th edition came out, they released eratta to update the codex. they missed a bunch of stuff in the FAQ but the digidex for Necrons existed and was updated. It made Hyperphase swords 'power swords' not 'power weapon' which prevented the use of Axes. People got butthurt and wanted to have power axes and claimed they had the right to have power axes until the FAQ was updated because they didn't acknowledge the digidex or that it was a newer printing until it hit the FAQ.

But everyone else saw the conflict between the 5th edition printed version and the digidex and digidex being a newer release trumps the old printed edition.

Having an old out of date WD and incomplete FAQs doesn't give you valid rules. If there is a reprint with a newer revision out there, if you have it or not, those are the most up to date and valid rules. We know there is a lag time with the FAQ and they often miss errors for multiple FAQ release cycles... it doesn't invalidate things fixed in newer printings/digital releases.

Whatever dude.

It's pretty obvious that we're not about to agree on this, and all the salient points on both sides are covered.

The Amendment to update the rules to 6th is just that, an official codex/wd update to 6th. The last release of the document with the amendment was jan 2013, AFTER the digidex, and they haven't changed it to match, hence the conflict. The digidex is actually the older version of the rules going by release date.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2940049a_Orks_v1.2_JANUARY13.pdf

Note how it says 'official update' on there? Release date of the update is Jan 2013. What might bake your noodle here is that it amends WD 390, NOT FAQ's it. These are official rule changes to an existing publication as of the date of the document. The WD is no longer an 'old WD' but a current 6th ed ruleset for the units.

Frankly, i don't much care at this point (as my FLGS runs it as working on flyers as i mentioned upthread) , so i'll leave you to your belief that only the digital dexes are official, and bow out of this conversation. The argument isn't going to go anywhere, and it'd just waste both of our time.

 Ascalam wrote:

Frankly, i don't much care at this point (as my FLGS runs it as working on flyers as i mentioned upthread) , so i'll leave you to your belief that only the digital dexes are official, and bow out of this conversation. The argument isn't going to go anywhere, and it'd just waste both of our time.

What are you going to argue when they release 'Skies of Blood' and continue not to errata/FAQ the WD article? Is that mean for someone who uses the WD article, his upgrade doesn't hit flyers? Is the 'Skies of Blood' rulebook invalid? Or is it only hard to get Digidexes which are ignored?

Incomplete FAQs that don't address the differences in publications leave us with only one valid recourse, default to the most recent publication... which for this rule is the Digidex, and soon to be 'Skies of Blood.' (probably)

Most up to date publication takes precedence when FAQ/ERRATA is incomplete or doesn't explicitly address something. We have a decade of valid examples to prove this.

nkelsch wrote:
What are you going to argue when they release 'Skies of Blood' and continue not to errata/FAQ the WD article?

Just as an aside, this has been pretty much been confirmed as a cover for 'Death from the Skies' was leaked (unconfirmed but pretty legit looking). It is rumored to have all of the WD flyer rules in it along with updates to the other existing flyers.