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I'm trying to rework my Ultramarine list into an effective gun line army. I like the Ultras for the fluff and while I know I could do a couple things better with the Dark Angels or Space wolves, I want to forge my SMurfs into something that's different to play than my space wolves I.e. not a drop pod heavy army.

HQ
Captain w/ thunder hammer, artificer armor

Command squad w/ chapter banner, 4 storm bolters

Troops
Tactical squad (10 man) w/ plasma gun, las cannon, razorback

Tactical squad (10 man) w/ meltagun, las cannon, razorback

Scout squad (10 man) w/Sgt. Tellion, sniper rifles, camp cloaks

Heavy support

Predator annihilator w/3 lascannons

Thunder fire cannon
Devastator squad w/ 2 heavy bolters, 2 plasmacannons

Fortifications
Aegis defense line with Icarus las cannon

So what do you guys think? I play against a wide variety of armies, from meq's to tau to tyranids.

I would never field a Vanilla list above 1250 without a riflemen dread. They are an excellent addition to any list. I'm allying my Ba to vanilla to get one, actually. Well that and null zone.

Martel732 wrote:
I would never field a Vanilla list above 1250 without a riflemen dread. They are an excellent addition to any list. I'm allying my Ba to vanilla to get one, actually. Well that and null zone.

Should I kill the predator and add in a dread with to las cannons and krak missile launcher?

Drop the captain and command squad for a motf with a beamer, if you can get sterguards or another tac squad or telion and sniper scouts. Tellion behind a adl is nasty

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Drop the captain and command squad for a motf with a beamer, if you can get sterguards or another tac squad or telion and sniper scouts. Tellion behind a adl is nasty

I do have tellion and sniper scouts. And I know a captain isn't the best HQ but I'm using him for mixed fluff reasons combined with unlocking the command squad for the banner. I don't want my guys running off the board edge.

The comand Squad is a waste of points for what they give you. If you are going to take a command squad give them all plasma's and give them a ride so they can deliver the nasty 8 plasma shots. Otherwise they are just more expensive guys with bolter shots.

I'd get rid of the command squad first and leave in the predator. Rifleman dread = two twin linked autocannons.

Why a captain for a gunline?

Why a command squad without 4 plasmas?

Why no matched combiweapon on tac sergeants? And why 3 troops? 2 is enough particularly with 10 man squads. Vanilla troops choices are lacklustre to say the least.

Why the dev squad they are massively over costed.

Why on earth would you pay 45 points to upgrade an auto cannot to a lascannon!?!? There is a reason it is only 25 points in the new codexes. Stick with autocannon and las sponsons for 120 points it does 95% of the job for less than 75% the cost.


Also why the icarus on the aegis if you're gunlining you need AA fire.

For gunline the best units are:

Rifleman dread you need atleast a pair.
Auto-Las preds again you need a pair.
Quadgun
landspeeder typhoon
Las-plas razorbacks
ass-can razorbacks
Librarian
Sternguard.


Fill your army with those units.

Unless that devi squad is a full 10 man and can combat, I think that it is a waste to put HBs in with PCs. One is good for just mowing infantry, and one for TEQs/ MCs. Even if it can be split, that is still kind of wasting points IMO.

OK I've reworked it a little.
HQ
Captain w/ thunder hammer, artificer armor

Command squad w/ company standard, 3 storm bolters plasma gun

Troops
Tactical squad (10 man) w/ plasma gun, las cannon, sgt w/ combiplasma & power fistrazorback

Tactical squad (10 man) w/ meltagun, las cannon, Sgt. W/ plasma pistol & power sword razorback

Scout squad (10 man) w/Sgt. Tellion, sniper rifles, camp cloaks

Heavy support

X2 Predator Maverick w/auto cannon, 2 lascannons

Thunder fire cannon


Fortifications
Aegis defense line with quad gun


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dude_I_Suck wrote:
Unless that devi squad is a full 10 man and can combat, I think that it is a waste to put HBs in with PCs. One is good for just mowing infantry, and one for TEQs/ MCs. Even if it can be split, that is still kind of wasting points IMO.

My thought process was that it the plasma would obviously kill teq's and the bolters would just force them to make armor saves constantly. They'll fail them eventually, especially with dwindling numbers thanks to the plasma. But for what I was getting the devastators were a big point waste.

I think Flingitnow pretty much covered it.

That looks far better already. Id drop the cc upgrades on sergeants though.

Id get the captain a lightning claw as he gets an extra attack on his fist that way and can switch if needs be to go at initiative.

Id drop the company standard it really is a waste of points. Even if you run you autorally anyway.

You still need a pair of rifleman dreads to support the quadgun in AA drop the melta tac squad and you can get 2!

Personnally, the predators are the only vehicles so guess what is going to take every anti-tank shot they have?
I would lose them for sternguard. If you feel exposed against vehicles, you could take 2 lascannons on them. If you can get them to 10, you can combat squad it. I just like sternguard for the super bolters and the 2 attacks, nothing special but wounding on 2+, AP 3 and 30" range can all be useful.

Seeing you are doing firepower, I would lose the captain for a librarian. It is going to support your gunline better defensively and the psyker is going to support you better with either more firepower or the ability to affect the opponent saves.

If you absolutley have to stick with the captain I'd drop him in favor of one of the flavored characters or MOTF with Conversion Beamer.

I like Sicarius in a gun line. Sure he's 200pts, but he gives all units a Ld of 10, has Feel No Pain, Artificer Armour, a Plasma Pistol (no worries there with 2+/FNP) and a Power Sword. In addition he lets you re-roll for first turn, which could be very handy for the gunline. Not to mention he can upgrade one squad of tacticals, to give them Tank Hunters!

Lysander would be my second choice, as he's a great anchor, super tough against anything other than a CC monster, and if embedded in a sternguard or HB Dev squad can deal out some serious pain with Bolter Drill.

Your command squad is still pointless, what do you hope to achieve with it that a tac squad cant achieve?

Drop the command squad. Just drop it. It really serves no purpose. Get a MotF with a Beamer and stick him with the Scouts, them have him bolster defences for a slick 2+ cover save.

In my gunline list I have 5 dreadnoughts and two Stormtalons, two full tac squads, and a full Scout unit w/ Telion.

Keep in mind a couple things:
1-Lascannons are only useful against AV12 and lower. Anything higher and you should be using melta weapons.
2-Dreadnoughts are awesome. Drop pod a vanilla dread (MM+DCCW) right next to an enemy tank and blow it up. Or, get a 10 man Tac unit w/ MM, Combi-melta, and Meltagun, and do the same thing.

If your running a gun line why equipped the caption with an TH? give him Hell fire shells and stick him with stern guard and drop the command squad.

Run the stern guard ether in 5 with a razor back to hunt
or full 10 in a drop pod with some combi

Drop the command squad and captain for either Sicarius (rites of battle and tank-hunting tacticals on the ADL) or even better: Calgar, then your squads will never break.

Hi, jetstumpy
If you really need that command squad, make them all carry plasma. Image how good it can be: 8 plasma shots from one unit in one turn and 3+ AS 5+ FNP saves for overheat. that's very devastating. Super efficient against TDA, Dreadknight ...etc.
I guess you have modeling issue on Caption? If so, keep it, but don't expect too much on him in a gunline list.
Sicarius and Lysander are very good, you should try. Give them a chance!
Others opinions are all mentioned by guys above.

Wtf? Razor backs can hold 10? That is so much better than the rhinos chaos marines get.

 Filch wrote:
Wtf? Razor backs can hold 10? That is so much better than the rhinos chaos marines get.

No Razor backs can hold only 6 and they cannot hold anyone in terminator armor

So is he splitting up the tac squad before they are in the razorback?

Would he be transporting the special weapon combat squad and foot slog the heavy weapon combat squad?

 Filch wrote:
So is he splitting up the tac squad before they are in the razorback?

Would he be transporting the special weapon combat squad and foot slog the heavy weapon combat squad?

The typical strategy is the special, sarge and 3 other guys move up in the razor, while the heavy and 4 remaining troops stands back and shoots all game. This maximizes the power or the heavy/special at the cost of the bolters, which like to be kept together for massed fire. It's also a lot easier to kill 5 marines.

You also have the option of just taking the razors and using them as light tanks, independent of the squad they were bought for.