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Curt Cover of Smirk and Dagger games joins us in the third chair!

Up first we discuss adult content in board games. When is it ok? Can games be just for adults?

Later Colen of Lone Wolf development joins us to talk about Realm Works. What exactly does it do? And why a kickstarter?

All that and our other not-too-horrible segments including:
- Total Fan Girl
- Do You Ever Notice
- News
- & More

Link to episode:
http://www.thed6generation.com//d6g-ep-119-i-m-too-sexy-for-my-game-realm-works-interview

Please let us know what you thought of the show!

Good podcast! The cheesecake controversy has been up on the Infinity forums as well, due to certain...inpractically dressed for combat sculpts. It is really not my thing - I'm with Curt on that it smells of juvenile tastes, and I think that if that aspect of the gaming hobby gets press, we get the stereotypes reinforced once again, to the detriment of the majority of us. I mean, the average pledge sum of the KD Kickstarter was nearly double that of Sedition Wars (also very much a niche product) which to me indicates that it is a pretty small but very dedicated group that's into Poots' product.

WOO!!!! New episode!!! I just left my voicemail. Hoping to finally win a D6G contest...

Well, I haven't listened to the main episode yet, but I just finished the Lost Chapter about the First Law review. Good discussion, although I found myself hazy on remembering some of the details. I read the main trilogy a while ago...the 3 stand alone novels are more fresh in my mind. And your discussion about Logen's story coming full circle made me think about one thing...

(very minor spoilerish comment ahead)



One comment about Sand dan Glokta - I have the sneaking suspicion that he might not be quite the puppet that Bayaz would hope for, and is possibly one of the few characters that might be able to scheme against Bayaz successfully.

I'm suprised that Tenticle Bento didn't get a mention during the segment.

As a 32 year old conservative Christian man married for almost 9 years and the father of two girls ages 4 and 2, I'm not a fan of risque or vulgar content in games. I'm not opposed to darkness or evil being portrayed, but when it comes to risque or vulgar content for the sake of risque or vulgar content then I don't like it.

That being said, people need to make their own choices. I don't expect people to follow my moral compass just the same as I would like people to not expect me to follow theirs. As a society we can come together and set some standards, but beyond a certain base level of unaccaptableness there needs to be freedom for people to make their own choice about what they create and/or support.

However, I think there does need to be a better conversation on what that base level should be as obscenity is growing more rampant, but I don't feel like people are talking about it in a meaningful way.

I enjoyed the discussion on "adult content" in games. I think it's something we have to be more aware of in the gaming community, and I'm glad to hear people talking about it.

The sexist vs. sexy thing is an interesting debate, and I think it's tough to know where to draw the line. It's funny that nudity, revealing outfits, or exaggerated poses and proportions are an issue when most miniatures games are based around fatal violence, but I suppose we live in a society that is more comfortable with killing than with sex.

Still, I agree with the sentiment that I don't really want to associate myself with games like Kingdom Death. I certainly wouldn't want my daughter to see it being played, at least until she is an adult, and even then I wouldn't want her to see ME playing it.

Good episode, Curt is always a good guest host.

Good discussion on the sex in games. Haven't seen the Kingdom of Death minis, nor have I an interest in seeing them, so not able to tell if that crosses the line for me. But there definitely is a line there somewhere. I for one would like to get more women and girls into the hobby. And that is hard if this kind of imagery and attitudes are as prevalent as they are today.

I caught the twitter and blog storm about sexism in the gaming industry earlier (#1ReasonWhy). It really seems that our industry is no better than society at large, and quite possibly a bit worse. The things women in the industry has experienced boggles my mind.

Also the RealmWorks interview was interesting, so much in fact that I was a backer before I listened to the whole segment.

ddogwood wrote:

The sexist vs. sexy thing is an interesting debate, and I think it's tough to know where to draw the line. It's funny that nudity, revealing outfits, or exaggerated poses and proportions are an issue when most miniatures games are based around fatal violence, but I suppose we live in a society that is more comfortable with killing than with sex.

I would much prefer my kids to play war than to play orgy. Sex and violence are on two totally different moral levels.

Graphic violence as opposed to abstract violence are also on two different levels. Kids playing with toy soldiers who "kill" each other during the course of a game is a different thing that kids watching Saw or Hostel or The Human Centipede or playing an over-the-top violent video game (I'm not really up to date on video games, but there's probably some grotesquely violent stuff out there some where).

 bbb wrote:


I would much prefer my kids to play war than to play orgy. Sex and violence are on two totally different moral levels.

I find this to be a curious sentiment - although very typical here in the U.S. And I don't mean to imply that I'm immune to it - I played my fair share of "army" or "cowboys and indians" growing up. And I have an 8 year old son now that sets up a ton of battles between his various lego forces.

But let's think about this a minute. First, I think you're comparison isn't quite apples-to-apples. "War" is "unfortunately, an all too common state of affairs and in some ways "normal" throughout history. An "orgy" is not really "normal" for the vast majority of people. Better, I think, to compare "playing war" to just plain 'ol sex. Sex is - or we would hope in the majority of cases is - a consenting act between two loving adults. A very natural act, and one that the vast majority of people feel very compelled to do. War - or more specifically, the act of killing someone, is just the opposite. You are literally ending someone's existence, in possibly a very painful and ugly way - and likely causing grief to many people who knew that individual. I would argue that the act of killing someone (whether in a war or not) is inherently unnatural. Brigadier General SLA Marshall performed studies during WWII that indicated the vast majority of soldiers don't fire their weapons, or intentionally miss the enemy due to the innate resistance to taking another human's life. This is explored more in the book "On Killing" by Lt. Col Dave Grossman. These studies are not without their detractors, but it still interesting.

So, I find it interesting that we, as a society, have no problem with our sons "playing war" and making a game of the act of killing other human beings, yet we react in a panic if they are exposed to something of a sexual nature. George R.R. Martin (who's political statements ofttimes leave me shaking my head) has talked about this to some degree. I will probably botch his quote a little, and if this is too graphic for this board, I apologize. He has said something to the effect of "I can write a sentence about an axe cleaving a man's head in two and splattering his brains everywhere, and I never hear anything about it. But if I write a sentence about a penis entering a vagina, my inbox fills with hate mail."

All of this is not to say I advocate material of a sexual nature be open and available to children. There is certainly a time and a place to teach children about the differences between men and women, and what happens in a loving relationship - and learning about that from a boardgame is likely NOT the time and place. And the miniatures as described in "Kingdom Death" would likely do nothing but present a warped view of "normal"(yeah, I know that's a loaded word) human sexuality to a child. And sexual images can certain lead to objectification, particularly of women.

It's just curious that we don't have the same trepidation and worries when a child is pretending to kill another human being.

great episode , looking foward to relm works. sounds like hours of fun building and crafting worlds to adventure in . great meeting you guys at temple con . the games you ran were awesome . great dystopian war / legion tables , everything was top nocth ! thanks again more pics of templecon here enjoy http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505240.page

I'm really not a fan of the mostly nekkid ladies in miniature form. I just find it a big turn off. Really was kinda disappointed with Kingdom Death, I wanted to like it, the sculpts and art are really top notch, but just not really a fan of the subject matter in general.. But I'm still happy for them that it did so well regardless.

For Blackwater Gulch, I do want to have lots of cowgirl types running around, and the occasional "strong female lead" .. but I've told every artist and sculptor from the start that they can make them attractive, but not strippers. I want to keep it PG13

I really enjoyed the discussion in this episode. I found myself laughing a little bit though.

Our group refers to one of the Cutthroat Caverns characters exclusively as "Underboob" because the picture is a little ridiculous. While this is no where near the level of Kingdom Death, it's still on the spectrum of objectifying women. In some ways, this minor, more accepted version can be it's own problem.

Thanks for the great comments and discussions, guys. I believe our conclusions are all very close together on this. And it's important to remember that we aren't finding fault with folks who DO like Kingdom Death and the like, just that we didn't find it appealing personally.

Thanks for posting those pics, Matt, they look great!

And there ain't NOTHIN' wrong with strong cowboy women characters!

Thank you guys for the discussion of adult content. I wasn't aware of the Kingdom Death game before your podcast. I made the mistake of surfing over to their site while listening to your podcast...holy crap. I'm not offended by that material as much as I am disturbed by the vision of the game. Not only would I never buy the game, but I would never even try the game. Thanks guys for the episode. I need to go hug my kid and cleanse my soul after those images.