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After being thoroughly entertained by a similar post I decided to pose a question.

Which, if any action would a typical human be more inclined to defect to should the be ginven the opportunity.

It's been established in that life within the bulkd of the Imperium is difficult, and while the majortiy of the billions of Imperial worlds do remain largely loyal, there are worlds that "fall".

If you were a citizen, which faction would have the greatest draw fro you... would rather defect to the Tau? Throw yourself at the mercy of the Eldar? Sell your soul to Chaos (and if so, which of the 4 powers).

I personally think that the only faction that could appeal to me in any way strong enough to compell me away from the Imperium would be Chaos... specifically Nurgle. The other powers are not remotely convincin to me.

What about you?

Life is pretty terrible, but being a walking contagion vector for every terrible disease known to Mankind, as well as many that aren't, while my body fills with its own corruption and rot, does not, to me, seem at all appealing.

Nurgle loves his creations, this is true. However, he also kills them with nary a thought or concern, sometimes just by shifting his bulk about.

There is only the Emperor.

Assuming that we are naive imperial citizens who do not know as much as we, as omniscient players, do, I think I would defect to the Tau. Looks pretty ideal compared to the Imperium to be honest, that is from an imperial citizen point of view.

However, if we're talking about us as players who know alot about the background and the truth about the Tau, Chaos, Demons and such forth, well, might as well stay with the Imperium. If you're going to die, might as well die surrounded by your fellow humans.

Even putting myself into the shoes of an average Imperial subject, I don't think daemons or xenos would be appealing. In fact, I think these options are far less appealing in-universe than out-of-universe as players. This is because, with all this game information, we can say "well, the Tau are really like X and that's not so bad" or whatever but if we were regular subjects we just wouldn't know and more importantly we'd be living in a culture that assumes the absolute worst. Fans and even some BL authors don't seem to think hard enough about what the cultural conditions of living in the Imperium would do to the human psyche.

 Psienesis wrote:
Life is pretty terrible, but being a walking contagion vector for every terrible disease known to Mankind, as well as many that aren't, while my body fills with its own corruption and rot, does not, to me, seem at all appealing.

Nurgle loves his creations, this is true. However, he also kills them with nary a thought or concern, sometimes just by shifting his bulk about.

True enough. I never said it would be a glorious existance. But Nurlge present the only logical solution to the problems faced by mankind at large, and therefore to me as an Imperial.

using meta-game, I can say that the Tau jst as bad if not worse than the Imperium so that is safely ruled out. Likewise I am just an insignificant sac of bulky flesh to the Eldar and they'd sooner kill me than look at me. It's impossible for me to reason with Orks/Nids/Necrons/etc so that leaves Chaos...

Chaos at large does attempt to sell itself to men. It will try to seduce you into the service of one of the four chaos powers.

Khorne boasts mighty warriors and he reward deeds of blood. Enemies slain, skulls taken.
But this is something that man can achieve without him. Mnakind has its own mighty warriors, free of Khorne who (under certain circumstances) are the better of their Khornate cunterparts in the first place. Thusly, Khorne has nothing to offer that I could not (given circumstance) otherwise obtain.

Tzeentch will sell you power. Sorcery, mutation, and knowledge.
But again, this is not something we are lacking. The legions of men already possess mighty psykers. We can already set great plots into motion and create plans for greater conquest. Nothing he sells is exlclusive to him,

Slaanesh is all about you... he will sell you what he wants you to believe is yourself. Giving into your impulses
As with the other two, a normal is perfectly capable of falling into depravit without the aid of a dark power. The desire to give in to the extremes that Slaanesh offers are typically outside the scope of human desires anyway.

Nurgle will give you life. He will give you the ability to cheat death. To stand where others will fall, and to endure when all has crumbled to dust.
All men are mortal. we face death sometime. And every man approaches it differently. Some men reach for it, others fear it. But we all face it sooner or later. Nurlge offers you service to him in place of death. live on youself and kill others.

Mind you Nurgle is still a douchebag... he'll infect you with a disease so that you can taste your own mortality before he offers to "cure" it. and if you refuse he'll let you die just like any toher mortal.

But when it's all said and done... Nurgle is the only power that offers a man something he cannot get anywhere else... however hideous and foul it may be, when faced with the darkness of death, suddenly it may not seem so terrible.

You should think about something that breaks your own code of morality that's how it is for an Imperial citizen to break with the IOM. Only the most deranged persons break away from it. F.ex. think about something you hate then embrace it. It goes against everything moral and good in your body. That's how much a sacrifice the non-loyal subjects are doing.

I'd either be going to Slaanesh or Tzeentch. Or go to Slaanesh and take so many Warp drugs that I think I worship Tzeentch.

If you are talking strictly Chaos, I pick Nurgle. After reading The Lives of Ferag Lion-Wolf I decided that there is no way anyone could ever willingly choose to follow Tzeentch unless they're either ignorant or just plain stupid. Khorne is like one of those African warlords that pumps little kids full of coke and then gives them AKs and points them in a convenient direction, so no thank you there. The Slaaneshi seem like a good idea at first, but they are all tease and no money shot. They don't seem to derive any real satisfaction from their perversions any longer, which to me makes them seem like the most miserable group of bastards in the whole lot. According to the lore, while followers of Nurgle may seem like the most afflicted, Nurgle also makes it to where they are the most happy! Nurgle also seems to reward good service as well as refrain from arbitrary betrayal and destruction of his followers more than his compatriots.

That being said, if aliens are on the table, I probably pick Tau. I'd be happiest among them, and while the possible pheremonal influence of the Ethereals probably wouldn't affect me, the chemical agents they put in the food and water, as well as the 24-7 subliminal reinforcement, the social system engineered to breed compliance, and the unending diet of subtle propaganda would serve to keep me docile and content until I died. The real tragedy would be that my wife and I were unable to have children, and the children we did have weren't ever able to have grandchildren, but shoot, the Tau doctors did all they could to help us, and really, we're just so happy anyway...

You're screwed no matter what you pick. If I gotta be screwed against my will, I think that I'd prefer to be slipped a mickey first.

If my world was being taken over by Tau it depends.

Choice A: Go home, don't fight.
Choice B: Be a Kroot's next meal.

I'd be inclined to join the Tau. I think it really depends on what options are left to you. Same goes for chaos, if they catch you at your lowest and start whispering in your ear, they can paint a pretty picture.

Treachery?
NEVER!

To deal with the traitors and heretics is more entertaining than any worthless offer to join.

I'd probably defect to the Tau. Improved standards of living and no tentacles growing out of my eyeball or rot setting into my balls.

The Tau Empire can offer you a better life while chaos offers you the chance to attain unimaginable power. Still, it all depends on where you are. Are you toiling for 18 hours a day in some hazardous hive manufactorium, where the average worker might never see his 40. birthday? Or are you on some rather quiet agri or civilised world where life is actualy quite bearable?
In the first example there is relatively little reason not to turn traitor at the first chance ( after all, there isn't much to lose ) while the already acceptable life of the second example will probably make you much more risk averse.

Renegade Pirate serving the Red Corsairs would be my first pick, the greatest chance of some degree of freedom and payback against a totalitarian Empire. I would'nt go to the local chaos church though, I don't want tentacles.

It would be nice to include a piece of personal information and inject it with warhammer 40k steroids. That would better mimic your place in that universe.

I would not betray the Imperium and if I do (more like I would be forced to) then I would defect to Tzeentch. It's because of my real life natural ability to sense subtle things (like others people emotions, be emotionaly sensitive to certain areas. Also, I'm "talented" meditator). These things would grow exponentially in warhammer's universe making me a powerful psyker. By being a psyker and a natural schemer that I'm, I would no doubt will be loved by Tzeentch. It's highly likely that he would keep an eye on me and would offer me his standard "free gifts package" for my birthday. In his service, I would be considered as a pawn in his game. But in the end, we all are going to die. In Imperium it will be most likely from xenos. In TAU from Imperium. In servise of other gods I would be just wasted. Tzeentch on the other hand will treat me fairly. As a figure, my power will be weighted and my true worth measured and as you know, in chess game, the more valuable figure is, the more guarded is going to be. In the end I might enjoy immense power and with that, immortality as I will be risen again and again to serve my patron.


Btw: Also, I hope you understand that defection to chaos isn't exactly as simple as you all make it sound.

Id rather die than to betrayer the emperor and mankind! Only in death dose duty end

If I were average Imperial citizen, I'd probably stay loyal to the Imperium, since the Imperial Creed dictates your soul goes to the Emperor's side after death if you're a good loyal servant.

If I had to choose another faction, however, it would easily be Nurgle. Because in the grim darkness of the fourty-first millennium, the God of Despair is the closest thing to a benevolent entity there is.

I've been reading The Greater Good, and the Tau need to keep human defectors hidden in fear some imperial soldiers might lynch the humans. It goes to show how loyal imperial citizens can be.

Um, definitely go for Slanesh. Sex, drugs, and rock n' roll.

I won't defect to anything if the imperium doesn't give me reason to i.e. declaring me a heretic or a witch for wearing a pink shirt or trying to kill me for the "betterment" of the imperium...that being said, if i indeed to go about turning my back on the imperium it'd be more likely become independent of any of the factions, be a pirate renegade that doesn't declare allegiance to chaos.

Given my Current Job being in the Army , Me Personally i would Defect to the Tau , if i was a commander i would convince my troops to Defect - Leading my Troops as Mercs under the Tau Banner , Given Tau Equipment and upgrades combine with Basterdized Imperial Tech -- Mostly i would do so because if you are useful the Tau Value you , if my Unit Could prove themselfs then we would be valued and not exactly considered Expendable ......imagine , Leman Russ's armed with Pulse Shells rather then Traditional Rocket Assisted AP ...... Orgasimc

Or if i had to , i Would go out and fight to the Last man , Let the Bastards Try and Take me Alive

On the other hand, I live in my country's most industrial city and I'm just an lowly student... At best, I would be Adeptus Mechanicus student who could not dream about anything more than lowest of ranks. Most likely I would be an Eginseer or Lexmechanic. Would I betray Imperium? Well, if conditions would be right, yes. Heretek life is a very dangerous one, but I believe that I could get away with it if I would decide low-risk, low-reward approach and would travel to places there are no or very little Adeptus Mechanicus.presence.

The thing is, Chaos wouldn't put much effort into tempting you Ern. You have little value for it. It's better to try to corrupt some higher up. I mean if I could get paid to betray my country, I would, but who the hell would pay an unemployed jackass anything?

I would stay loyal to the Emperor. Hiding in the seewers and killing people for a Klondike Bar sounds like a nice life in the grimdark grimdarkness of the grimdark future.

The Imperium. Preferably the son of a powerful Rogue Trader so I'd have life made and I wouldn't have to do anything apart from manage the business of others half the galaxy away.

Being the elite of anything means you live longer and die better, even if it's still Grimdark.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
The thing is, Chaos wouldn't put much effort into tempting you Ern. You have little value for it. It's better to try to corrupt some higher up. I mean if I could get paid to betray my country, I would, but who the hell would pay an unemployed jackass anything?

Sell out.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
The thing is, Chaos wouldn't put much effort into tempting you Ern. You have little value for it. It's better to try to corrupt some higher up. I mean if I could get paid to betray my country, I would, but who the hell would pay an unemployed jackass anything?

For now I will assume that you referring to my Eginseer's position.


That I mean by: " Well, if conditions would be right, yes." is that I might begin to question the Omnissiah after exposure to Mechanicus dogmas. Even if I would pass that test, there are still a chance that I might begin to question Mechanicus ways. "Many" of Adeptus Mechanicus personal become Hereteks after spending some time rallying on their own abilities and technology at hand to overcome problem. People become hereteks on their own, deamonic influence is rare factor here. Also, Heretek doesn't mean that you will eventually are going to serve chaos. In fact, many Hereteks are opposed to it. And as for me, there is quite a chance that I might try to gain influence and wealth in technologically awkward Imperium. Maybe in some remote from Mechanicus planet that a run mostly by its local populace or some agri or medieval world. With imported devises which would grant me an immense edge, I would try to keep low profile and silently assume as much control as possible. Otherwise, I would hide somewhere and would spend my time, exploring the truths those have been denied to me.

En Excelsis wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Life is pretty terrible, but being a walking contagion vector for every terrible disease known to Mankind, as well as many that aren't, while my body fills with its own corruption and rot, does not, to me, seem at all appealing.

Nurgle loves his creations, this is true. However, he also kills them with nary a thought or concern, sometimes just by shifting his bulk about.

True enough. I never said it would be a glorious existance. But Nurlge present the only logical solution to the problems faced by mankind at large, and therefore to me as an Imperial.

using meta-game, I can say that the Tau jst as bad if not worse than the Imperium so that is safely ruled out. Likewise I am just an insignificant sac of bulky flesh to the Eldar and they'd sooner kill me than look at me. It's impossible for me to reason with Orks/Nids/Necrons/etc so that leaves Chaos...

Are you basing this on anything other than in-universe propaganda?

Chaos at large does attempt to sell itself to men. It will try to seduce you into the service of one of the four chaos powers.

*Snip!*

Your examples fail to understand Chaos at its most basic levels. All of the things you mentioned exist because Chaos exists. Violence, bloodshed, rage, fury, ambition, dreams, magic, pleasure, perversion, death, disease, grim fatalism.... all of these things become embodied in the sentiences of the Great Four, and are, in turn, created by them. Because Chaos exists, it has always existed. While dates can be roughly attributed to the emergence of each of the Ruinous Powers, once they became the names we know them by, they began to have existed for all time, and will always exist for all time. A man who engages in warfare serves Khorne, because he is spilling blood. A man who plans, who dreams of a better life, who is driven and ambitious, serves Tzeentch, even if he knows it not...this is, of course, going just as planned. A man who seeks the forbidden, the perverse, the depraved... or seeks perfection, mastery, to be a living paragon of a given pursuit.... is already in thrall to the Prince of Pleasure. A man who resists despite all odds, who is determined to survive, who views the universe with a grim fatalism, but perseveres anyway... this person is already under the influence of Nurgle.

One need not sign one's soul away on the dotted line to find it already claimed by the Ruinous Powers.

I would go for the tau, wouldn't they welcome a believer of the greater good?