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So, I've been thinking about this for a while. Since I can add ICs to Battle Brother squads, this got me thinking. How best can I use my SW Priests? With IG of course!

Wolf Priest w/ SotH
Rune Priest w/ Storm Caller and whatever

1 Command Platoon
5 Platoon Squads
Throw in additional squads to your flavor

This Deathstar has a 4+ cover save on an outflank, Preferred Enemy, and is Fearless. Some plasma guns get to reroll gets hot and failed to wounds (same for lascannons and melta guns), and first rank fire second rank fire gets some awesome rerolls on lots of shots. If you outflank on something close to the board edge (be careful, you only have 6" to deploy 55 plus bodies) you can unleash a heck of a volley of lasgun fire, or you can trudge your way towards a backwater objective and sit on it as fearless makes you hard to move of an objective. 150 shots is nothing to be sniffed at with any number of rerolls!

A variation of this works well with Azrael, giving them a 4++ and Fearless as well.

http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/space-wolves-with-imperial-guard-allies.html

Check this out for awesome cheesiness.

Aleph-Sama wrote:
So, I've been thinking about this for a while. Since I can add ICs to Battle Brother squads, this got me thinking. How best can I use my SW Priests? With IG of course!

Wolf Priest w/ SotH
Rune Priest w/ Storm Caller and whatever

1 Command Platoon
5 Platoon Squads
Throw in additional squads to your flavor

This Deathstar has a 4+ cover save on an outflank, Preferred Enemy, and is Fearless. Some plasma guns get to reroll gets hot and failed to wounds (same for lascannons and melta guns), and first rank fire second rank fire gets some awesome rerolls on lots of shots. If you outflank on something close to the board edge (be careful, you only have 6" to deploy 55 plus bodies) you can unleash a heck of a volley of lasgun fire, or you can trudge your way towards a backwater objective and sit on it as fearless makes you hard to move of an objective. 150 shots is nothing to be sniffed at with any number of rerolls!

Let's look at the problems with this.

Start off with the fact you can't blob up more than 5 infantry squads. The PCS and SWS don't go in that blob.
Then move on to the problem with reserving 450pts worth without even adding upgrades.
We have the issue that the rune priest can't buff with the 5+ cover power the turn he comes in from reserves, so no, they don't have 4+ cover save, even with the wolf priest in there
Oh yeah, the wolf priest provides preferred enemy to SW codex units only

When you look at it, you've spent 210pts to give 50 guardsmen outflank stealth and reroll misses, without any heavy weapons. Sorry, that's just not worth it. It be far better to have them sitting back, blobbed up with lascannons and plasma guns, behind an aegis with a RP throwing out prescience. They not only get to attack from turn one, but they start off with a cover save, are close enough to the CCS to go to ground then GBITF and can use long range weapons that would actually benefit from rerolling misses, rather than just lasguns.
Making them fearless is actually detrimental when they could just have ATSKNF, allowing them to fall back then regroup if they lose, rather than being stuck in combat forever.
Also this is an old as gak tactic from the moment 6th ed came out. So not only have people beaten you to it, but they did it better.

Thanks for correcting me on the preferred enemy, but you still get to cast Storm Caller as per the BRB FAQ, as the outflank and psychic powers that are cast at the same time. Though, that would be expensive just to get 1+ the cover save and fearless. The lack of preferred enemy does this combo in.

By the way, I've read alot of that Space Wolves Blog, and it kinda inspired this idea!

I believe Stormcaller's cast at the start of the Shooting Phase anyway.

I've honestly never been all that impressed by this idea.

The main problem is that there is nothing that stops the blob from taking casualties, which means that the 50 guardsmen will die... well... like 50 guardsmen. I've lost that many against a single turn of shooting before in 6th ed, much less however many turns it's going to take out in the open before you can finally get into close combat with something. You can use it as a counterattack unit, but it's 100% wasted against opponents who aren't trying to engage you in close combat (and don't have the mobility to just avoid the blob).

I don't see what expensive, low-killing power troops choices really offer to space wolves, and I fail to see what a couple of beatsticks really have to offer to a guard army. The two can't be made to behave like each other just because they're allied.

Aleph-Sama wrote:
Thanks for correcting me on the preferred enemy, but you still get to cast Storm Caller as per the BRB FAQ, as the outflank and psychic powers that are cast at the same time. Though, that would be expensive just to get 1+ the cover save and fearless.

They're cast at the same time, but that doesn't over-rule the limitation on not casting in the movement phase the turn you arrive from reserves.

Fearless is awful for guard. Why would you want them stuck in combat? ATSKNF is far superior.

I've never quite understood why everyone has such a boner over making guard more survivable, but at a huge premium. Guard are balanced around being cheap and being cost effective. Putting a ton of points into giving them a 4+ (cover) or 4++ isn't worth it, especially when for those points you could just take more guns.

RPs are a different matter, but even then throwing them in a blob is better at 1750pts+. Still the RP gives rerolls, ATSKNF and psychic power defence.

Checked and yeah Stormcaller's at the start of the RP's turn. And no, he cannot cast a power when he arrives, but he can have a power cast on him when he arrives - the point of the FAQ is that if a power that has to be cast at the start of the turn, it coincides with the arrival of the psyker and therefore can target them.

Take a RP (or two) and a primaris psyker. Put in 50 man blob. Roll on Divination and/or biomacy: You will likely roll endurance and have the primaris div power for FNP, relentless and/or 4+ invulnerable and re-rolling all to hit rolls...

I have tried this and oh boy how it works.....even at 1000pts level.

You can do gak like this too: Take a 50 man blob, take a Commissar, 5 meltas, and a vox, as well as 5 lascannons. Now throw in a Space Wolf Rune Priest, roll on divination and pick the primaris power, and finally add an aegis wall. Now laugh as each shooting phase your squad throws down with FRFSRF 60 lasguns, 5 melta, and 5 LC shots... with rerolls to hit... also the whole thing has a 4+ cover, 2+ GTG save. If they assault you, laugh as you start picking up 100+ dice for overwatch. Been known to bring grown men to their knees.

Nasty nasty stuff. Don;t use in friendly games or you will get a neckbeard reputation!

I was in a 1k tournament today and tried playing a scaled down version of Tony's list with SWIG. Needless to say I really got slammed and/or the uber unit was ineffective. It was only the second time I ever played SW or IG so I have a lot to do with it (and I'm not that good anyway) but I'm very interested in hearing input about a SWIG list - in particular a 1k SWIG list. I ran a naked rune priest, primarus psyker and 30 guards men. Platoon command squad ran nearby to give orders. After seeing what I had to deal with at a tournament the star units in my 1k list were two 10 man units, 2 meltas in pods. In only one game did they fail horribly trying to take out a LR. I also had a 6 man LF unit with a pod that dropped empty and a 5 man GH unit with a plasma gun. My blob+rp+primarus were the only truly under performing unit. Out of four games they really did nothing to pull their own weight. So I'm looking for advice on what would make it better.

Ok, after further analysis (reviewing each game and sleeping on it) the blob squad under performed more due to my incompetence then the unit itself. Like I said it was my first time playing something other than necrons (or GK very occasionally). Anyway here's the break down of my blob squad: 1 RP, 1 primaris psyker, 3 infantry squad blob. No upgrades other than a chooser of the slain for the RP.

Game #1 vs SW: Game was halted at turn 3 by the TO by accident but the blob squad survived mostly intact and was moving in on an objective. At one point the blob was ordered to 1st rank fire 2nd rank fire by the platoon command for over 50 shots. Wish I had taken prescience with the RP now. Killed 6 out of 10 GH. Still need another two turns to finish them off and hold the objective. Should have started moving sooner.

Game #2 vs CSM: This was a KP vangaurd game which was bad for me as I had three drop pods and he had the mark of nurgle so I sat as far back as I could and let the LF do most of the heavy lifting. Eventually Typhus got to my blob squad. He was by himself (the blob squad killed off the last couple of dudes in his unit). When he assaulted in I fed him a sergeant which he quickly killed. After that combat the CSM player said there couldn't be anymore challenges which I found out later that was not the case and I could have fed Typhus two more sergeants which would have been the game. Instead Typhus assaulted the unit and they ran off the board. Live and learn.

Game #3 vs IG: Heavies never sleep. Lost the initiative which really hurt because his 2 basilisks got to get a shot off. In my turn I drop podded next to both basilisks and melted them - thank God. Mean while the blob was trying to use the RP's living lightening on a unit that was sitting at the center of the table holding an objective. I hid the blob behind a building so the basilisks would have to fire indirectly if he got the initiative. Not sure if that was the right thing to do or not where he did get the initiative and him scattering did save many little gaurdsmen's lives I had to really move to get to the objective and that's where I failed. I kept wanting to whittle down the unit holding the objective with lasgun shots and living lightening. Should have ordered move-move-move from the platoon squad - could have least pulled out a tie on the primary.

Game #4 vs SM: Role dice and tie dawn of war. SM player was all meched up with two rhinos and an LR. Two pods drop in, four melta shots later and all I managed was to rip off a melta gun and a HP from the LR. The LF tried and failed to stop the LR. The LR rolled up to my blob squad and they assaulted. Definitely my worst game - tabled by turn 5. This was the only game where the blob squad was extremely ineffective.

So I take back what I said above - the blob can be very effective when played well. At least in a 1k game anyway...

Ok well I took something like this:

1 RP

1 Primaris Psyker

40 infantry, with GL, flamers, power weapons and melta bombs.

7 Grey Hunters w/melta gun

7 Grey Hunters w/plasma gun, wolf standard, mark of wulfen

Vendetta

Platoon Command Squad x4 flamer (in Vendetta)

HWS x3 lascannons


I had a game against a very similar list you are describing with a LR (though it was black templars).
What I did was use my blob to block off the LR and then surround it so they could only emergency disembark. Then charged it with the blob and let the melta bombs do their work after softening it up with HWS lascannons and the Vendetta.

My x2 grey hunter squads were on each flank of the blob pushing forward to seize the mid-ground - which is what SW excel at.

I did get lucky I guess by rolling endurance so the blob had FNP every turn. Think I only lost 25% of it. They also had the divination primaris power to re-roll all to hit dice, which was nasty as feth on his marine squads. Just think how powerful they would be with the 4+ invlnerable save power.
The plasma grey hunter squad survived having 4 left at the end and held an objective whilst the plasma gun took out a land speeder.
The other GH squad with melta did not survive but did their job on the right flank screening the blob behind them and then curving in to get off a couple of shots at the LR and drawing a lot of fire. The HWS died quickly and is the only unit I feel didnt perform well enough.
Vendetta was excellent. Also very handy as it dropped off the PCS in the final turn on top of the 3rd objective making the game a 6-1 victory.

Your problem seems quite simple: You didn't have any long-range AT (other than the fangs with ML) and you were putting points into empty drop pods and other unnecessary points-sinks. You should've been more assaulty and offensive with the blob and it shouldve been a 40-man blob with power axes. You basically use foot-slogging grey hunters to protect the blob and seize the mid-ground. Not drop pod them in a type of list like this.

Here's the spcifics of my list from the weekend:

1000 Pts - Space Wolves Roster

HQ: Primaris Psyker
HQ: Rune Priest in Power Armour + Chooser of the Slain

Troops: 10 Grey Hunters Pack, 2 Meltaguns, Drop Pod
Troops: 10 Grey Hunters Pack, 2 Meltaguns, Drop Pod
Troops: 5 Grey Hunters Pack, Plasma gun,Drop Pod
Troops: Infantry Platoon Command Squad
4 Platoon Command Squad [Guard], 24 pts = 4 * 6
1 Platoon Commander [Guard], 6 pts
Troops: 27 Infantry Squad [Guard]
3 Sergeant [Guard]

Heavy Support: Long Fangs Pack, 5xMissile Launchers, 1 squad leader

How did you manage to encircle a LR? The one I was going up against had the flamer sponsons which probably would have fried the blob - which is what he did to everyone else anyway. I get your point about the HWS though. I'll need to see how I can fit that in. I really liked how the drop pods got me into the thick of things though. The alternative is to foot slog it across the field. I've tried that route with my GKs and have been plasma'd to death by LRBT Executioners. The pods dropped where I needed them when I needed them on turn one. But yes, I think the HWS needs to be squeezed in there somehow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@4chan So do you treat the HWS like the LF by putting them in cover since they don't have the combined squad special rule? Just making sure there's no special tricks here...

Yeah I was up against the LR with Hurricane bolters, multi-melta and assault cannon...I doubt I would have done it against one with flamer sponsons. Too risky even with FNP.

I found the list I used if it helps you:

Space Wolves

HQ
Runepriest 100pts

Troops
Grey Hunters x7 w/ meltagun, wolf banner

Grey Hunters x7 w/ plasma gun, wolf banner, mark of wulfen

Guard Allied detachment:

HQ
Primaris Psyker

Troops:

Platoon Command Squad x4 flamers

x4 Infantry squad (blob), x2 flamers, 2 grenade launchers, x4 power axes, melta bombs

HWS: x3 lascannons

Fast Attack:
Vendetta:

:1000pts

Differences with your list are significant:

My blob is bigger and is kitted out to be offensive and assaulty. The flamers give it additional overwatch power and act as a deterrent, while couple of GL's mean it can still put some firepower out on the move (GL's were good for taking out landspeeders and other AV10 vehicles).

The grey hunters as I said just went on foot on either flank of this blob.

I think it's not so much the list you bought as it is the tactics you used: My blob was so big for 1000pt games that it caused confusion in opponents - they felt it needed to be dealt with, yet it just soaked up fire and kept moving forward into the mid-field. The psyker and rune preist were vital in keeping it together: I lucked out a bit with endurance rolls in biomacy (5+ FNP, relentless), but still the rune priest gave it ATSKNF and the primaris divination re-rolls to hit, which was quite deadly.
This meant that the grey hunters on either flank were not shot at too much until turn 3 and 4, but by then it's almost too late as the blob should be planted on an objective (maybe even 2 objectives if you are smart with positioning).

I think maybe with the drop pods you were spreading the forces out too much, it was maybe easy to tarpit your blob and isolate your grey hunters.

I just put my HWS in cover, but it still died quickly and didn't get its points back. As I said, it disappointed me.

I think maybe you need to make the blob more assaulting and mobile, as then it compliments the space wolves in the mid-field...The thing with SW is that they are actually best at being a shooting army who takes the mid-field, then use there counter-attack to eat any charge at them. They aren't an assaulty army in the same sense as BA or GK. Not at all.
Give them lots and lots of plasma so you can whittle down infantry as you hold the mid-field, then kill the remainder through counter-assault.
By making the IG blob assaulty (out of character, I know) it kind of fills the void.

necron99 wrote:1000 Pts - Space Wolves Roster

Right, and this is a terrible list. Apart from a couple of drop pod meltaguns, you have no offensive capabilities whatsoever, and has basically no killing power.

If all you want is for a guard scoring unit to hold backfield objectives, then just take conscripts with send in the next wave. They accomplish the same thing (if not better), for much, MUCH cheaper.

Then you'd have the points left over to actually take guns, without which you can't expect to do all that well.

Don't listen to Ailros, his opinions are mostly awful. And he plays Guard (badly) and writes shoddy FAQ's on them.

Conscripts: A platoon may take one unit of Conscripts, or human Grots as they're affectionately called. If there is anything thinner than paper, it would be Conscripts. Good thing there are a lot of them. They are one point cheaper than a regular guardsman, so only take them if you are full on the others (how did you do that) or if you are using Chenkov's "Send In the Next Wave". Priest is a must. Do not expect them to pull miracles, but with Rank Fire, they can ignore their terrible BS of 2 (good luck passing Ld5 test, unless you have Kell or Lord-Comissar). Good luck keeping them from running away without wasting points on the aforementioned points sinks...

@all: Please keep in mind, Rule Number One is Be Polite.