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Hi Dakka Dakka

Looking for some help for a budding Chaos marine player , Just now I have just the dark vengance set and a daemon prince and looking to spread out alittle. What would you recommend as a start?

Thanks

Heldrake, obliterators and depending on what mark you intend on running your lord, some elite units of the same mark so they are troops. If you don't intend on using a marked lord, then some regular CSM to get more troops as the DV cultists are too soft to stay alive on their own. Also some transports for the cult troops if khorne or nurgle (rhinos maybe) but if you go slaanesh, then make them dakka noise marines and just shoot. This would be a good starting point. Rather than using the DV chosen as chosen, use them as unit champions instead.

Khorne lord on a bike or jugger accompanied with spawn or bikes.

Nurgle lord on a bike with 5 nurgle Spawn is filth.

Helldrakes
Oblits
Havocs with autocannons, stay away from that flakk nonesense.

I'd reccomend maxing out on fast attack options, they are all good.

Cool cheers guys, whats the general thought on maulerfiends/forgefiend?

Mauler is a monster. Great for smashing up tanks and tar pitting enemy blobs. Love throwing mine at orkes and then almost ignoring the big mob for the rest of the game. The other one is just far to expensive for what it does.

i would get a heldrake and a cult depending on which one you want i recomend either khorne or nurgle or a lil of both, but thats fustmy opinion.

Defintly an hell drake

I would also get Zerkers and an landraider myself

I would suggest maybe a preadator tank or two, cheap and effecte both on points and on the pocket book.

I am going to quote miniwargamer dave, "Play plague marines! Take three 10men squads of plague marines! They have toughness 5 which makes them not instantly killed by strength 9 weapons and they have feel no pain which means they get a second 5+ save when they fail their first armor or cover save. They have blight grenades which is a defensive grenade and they have plague knives which inflict poison on a 4+ to wound no matter how high the enemy toughness is in close combat. You can make many mistakes with them because father nurgle is very forgiving. You will lose less and you will love your life more!"

You can buy regular marines and paint them green so they become plague marines. At low points games, you should get 2 squads of 5 men so you can buy 4 special weapons and 2 melta bombs compared to 1 squad of 10 men with only 2 special weapons and 1 melta bomb. You can also fit 2 squads of 5 men into one rhino.

This method will allow you to get 6 squads of 5 men so you can field 12 special weapons and still only use 3 rhinos. At higher points games, you can elect to fully upgrade to 10 men squads.

Pair them up with obliterators with mark of nurgle and veterans of the long war so you have access to the heavy weapons you are missing.

Havocs with 4 autocannons are the bread and butter, allowing you to dump volumes of shots into the sky to desperately glance down a flyer. Giving them MoN will let them live longer.

Hell drakes are an auto take unless you want one slot for spawns for your mounted lord's retinue.

Once you played a few games, try to learn about Chaos Demon Epidemus to maximize your army.

I personally tried to start with khorne and I regret it as I have 40 kberzerkers, and 20 blood letters, 1 land raider, 5 rhinos, 2 defilers and I would lose too often. The blood letters used to be summoned as lesser demons, now I cant even do that as they have taken that from me in 6th edition. I often talk to my opponents into letting me proxy the blood letters as more khorne berzerkers.

The khorne berzerkers either kill the squad they charge and are left out in the open to be shot at, or they get locked into combat with a more brutal close combat enemy expert. A rule in 6th ed now allows me to disengage my kb from enemies that their weapons are useless for. However, the power fist I enjoy using on the champ is useless as they have to issue challenges and quite often they die to higher initiative. Also, land raiders are expensive both point and cash wise, so I use rhino's that dont let the kbs assault.

edit: I dont think you can embark 2 squads into a rhino from the start. I think you can still start the game with 1st squad embarked and the 2nd disembarked, so on the first turn, you can embark the 2nd squad in the moving phase.

You cannot embark 2 units into a single rhino as a chaos player. Read the codex rules on them. It clearly states "Single Unit"

You're thinking about the combat squads rule from another marine codex.

 Filch wrote:

The khorne berzerkers either kill the squad they charge and are left out in the open to be shot at, or they get locked into combat with a more brutal close combat enemy expert. A rule in 6th ed now allows me to disengage my kb from enemies that their weapons are useless for. However, the power fist I enjoy using on the champ is useless as they have to issue challenges and quite often they die to higher initiative. Also, land raiders are expensive both point and cash wise, so I use rhino's that dont let the kbs assault.

Uh.... Fearless units can't choose to fail thier moral check due to thier weapons are useless rule.

Still id generally advise proxying cult troops a fair bit before you buy and commit.

Most options in the codex are perfectly usable, it really depends on what sort of list you want to run.

Please, the army lists section is for... actual army lists!
You should first make an army list using units you would wish to try out, THEN get the suggestions.

Personally, i also like to try out the opions regarding how fluffy they are. For example, as a Night Lords player i would never try out plague marines!

Hmm ok no codex to hand but how does this sound, for around 1500k
HQ
Typhus or deamon prince (nurgle, wings and psyker)

Troop
30 plague zombies
2x7 Marines (MON) weapon option?
Rhinos x 2

Heavy
Maulerfiend

Fast
Helldrake
Raptors/warptalons? ( i like the look of talons but there expensive)

Elite
6 Chosen? (Mon)

Sorry no codex so i cant see options but the guys i play just now theres one of every army apart from eldar , dark eldar and nids. CC seems like the option to take down tau, ork and saves me from heavy weapons from space marines.

Beattie wrote:
Hmm ok no codex to hand but how does this sound, for around 1500k
HQ
Typhus or deamon prince (nurgle, wings and psyker)

Troop
30 plague zombies
2x7 Marines (MON) weapon option?
Rhinos x 2

Heavy
Maulerfiend

Fast
Helldrake
Raptors/warptalons? ( i like the look of talons but there expensive)

Elite
6 Chosen? (Mon)

Sorry no codex so i cant see options but the guys i play just now theres one of every army apart from eldar , dark eldar and nids. CC seems like the option to take down tau, ork and saves me from heavy weapons from space marines.

i kinda' like it, but you should use plague marines instead of MoN marines, as they are more cost efficient. Also, Warp talons aren't costly for what they have. A jump pack and 2x lightning claws each and they are about 2/3 the cost of chosen with lightning claws. Add to that their daemon special rule and the deep strike thing (don't recall what it's called).

how many warp talons would you use is 5 enough or 10? What would you use typhus or the deamon prince or both thnaks for the help with this guys

Beattie wrote:
how many warp talons would you use is 5 enough or 10? What would you use typhus or the deamon prince or both thnaks for the help with this guys

Five is enough, they ARE still costly. Give them a MoS or a MoK. If you're fielding a prince, you can afford to make it expensive. Give him at least power armor and wings would be good to. Also, one or two masteries can't hurt....
NEVER, I repeat, NEVER field a Nurgle prince. Just use MoT and call him counts as Nurglate

Also, I suggest you use one of the unique weapons. AoBF or Black Mace might be effective.

I would actually recommend picking up the Battle Force.

It is annoying that they rose the price, and included less in it, but it still has a lot of good units.

A Squad of 3 Bikes with 2 Melta or Plasma Guns is good in any list, as an excellent way to deliver some special weapons right where you need it.

And it gives you a CSM squad in a Rhino, Which is a solid troop choice and definitely good to have.

And it has the Possessed. The possessed are the most interesting part of the Battle Force. They actual Possessed Chaos Space Marines suck hard core, never build them as a Possessed squad, BUT, and here is the BUT they have some of the Best Bitz Chaos has available.

I built my Sorcerer almost entirely out of Possessed Bitz (notably the arm launching flame) and I the bitz are also great for spicing up Chaos Lords, Aspiring Champions. Basically I am really glad I didn't build any Possessed Chaos Marines, but I am really glad that I have those parts at my disposal.

Seriously?
I cant believe my kb sucks harder and I can't have my squads share rhinos.

If you use typhus then drop chosen and put him with termi or have him deepstrike with warptalons.

I would personally go with a lord with MoN on a bike, put him with spawns instead of warp talons. If not bike then I give the lord jump packs to go with warptalons.

Ok so i have the nurgle prince model planned to slap on hive tyrant wings but should mark it with slaneesh? i figured nurgle and flying would work well since i get +2 to jink save so it would be a 3+ cover when in the air?

Dont use hive tyrant wings or bloodthirster wings the warhammer dragon wings are basically sculpted to fit onto the dp backpack things.

Typhus is a great model but he sort of skews your list in one direction, oblits heldrake and then zombie spam. The list basically plays itself imo. Its gonna get boring just my opinion.

Agree on KBZ sucking pretty hard this edition :(.

I think there still might be a role for rhinos in 6e but it might take a little time for people to start forgetting 5e and start using them again. the first turn mobility is still pretty cool and you can usually hide them somewhere in your deployment. I was thinking of a slanesh list of 6 msu noise marine squads with blastmasters and rhino havok launchers at 1850 ish. Most people disagree with me

I like the look of the nurgle deamon prince with black mace but mine always gets wasted pretty quickly at the start of games despite his shrouded and rarely makes his points back :( but i dont really see how tzeench would make it any difference apart from the slow and purposeful. That said- a i8 str 6 ap2 with HEAPS of attacks hasnt lost a challenge for me yet.

Stupid stupid k zerkers... im thinking of proxyign em as bloodletters for a bit...

Goodluck

A Tzeenchian prince can use his/her armor saves in cc. That is where he'd likely want to go. A Nurglean prince can only utilize cover saves a range and has S&P.

The Dp looses its wounds on the delivery more than in the cc. With the 5+d6 attacks you can usually precision strike that klaw nob or the hidden power axe at initiative and everything else is on your power armour. I think the marks are pretty close and it might come down to specific lists as to which mark will return more.

Nurgle psyker powers do look good to me they just seem to have more balance. was actually thinking of using a squad of thousand sons and a sorcerer marked with the others just to cover everything.

Nurgle is good. Plague Marines are almost impossible to instant death, have poisoned attacks, so they will be rerolling to wound in cc against MEQ. T5 is nothing to sneeze at either, and arguably the best psyker powers in the codex. Slaanesh has a better initiative, but is a shooty beast. You can also give them FnP, but they can be be instakilled versus the powerfist sergeant and the THSS termie. Khorne is fun when you can get them into cc, but in larger point value games will fail to fend off the onslaught of heavy shooting with virtually no invul saves. Tzeentch isn't all that impressive anymore either, but Ahriman is a solid sorcerer, and will let you infiltrate d3 units.
Daemon Princes look cool (and are) but are very pricey. They are a good secondary HQ choice, and a very good tertiary choice (if you have double force org).
You can plan on autotaking a heldrake and some Nurgle Obliterators. Beyond that go nuts, and welcome to the warp.

masquerade81 wrote:
If you don't intend on using a marked lord, then some regular CSM to get more troops as the DV cultists are too soft to stay alive on their own.

Stay...alive...? Cultists look like they're asking to be spammed in cheap suicidal blobs. If they kill anything that's just a bonus.

Anyone have recommendations for artillery? Tried a Fiend once and it seemed alright though the auto cannons seem like they would be far scarier if they had hit more often.

Defiler is cool but a bit to pricey in my opinion. For fire support i would go with havocs 4x autocannon with MoN and VOTLW and some Obliterators.

So whats the best build for plain chaos marines i was thinking in a squad of 10 with 2 plasma guns