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I call it the Unholy Trinity

3 Heldrakes with Baleflamers
3 Helbrutes
3 Maulerfiends , each with 2 sets of Lasher Tendrils
2 Daemon Princes, each with Daemon of Khorne, Wings and power armour. One DP with Burning Brand of Skalathrax, and the other DP with the Axe of Blind Fury

= 1750

I have points left over to take either Chaos Space Marines, or Cultists, or both. Still working on this part of the list. Smu's of Cultist for capturing objectives sounds reasonable.

Anyways, I wanted to know what the opinions are of the community here, if this is a fun list to play against, or would it be considered a hardcore list that you should warn your prospective opponent about? Why did I make the list, mainly the reason is that it's kind of already there, after collecting 3 sets of the Dark Vengeance box set. I already have suitable models for the DP's, and I love the new Maulerfiend and Heldrake models. I already have 1 of each btw, and would seriously consider buying 2 more of each.

Also if you think this list would not be competitive if taken to a tournament, please share your thoughts on why. Thanks in advance.

How many points is the tournament?

To be honest, any list with 3 drakes would be less than fun to play against. I don't think it's a hard core list using 3 brutes 3 maulers and 2 DPs but the drakes are what make it unenjoyable to face for a friendly game. Your models also leave a big footprint on the table with 6 flyer bases and 5 dreadnought/DP bases.

I personally wouldn't take more than 1 drake in a friendly atmosphere, no matter the point limit.

I would get as many 20 men mobs of cultist I could fit in but I prefer csm and giving them fearless from the IoV.

The reason is to supplement low model count with mobs of cheap scoring units.

You could drop all three helbrutes and get 3 giant blobs of CSM.

I went up against 3 mauler fiends, and a massive khorne cultist army led up by karn......it was ugly. turn two those nasty maulerfiends were smashing into my front lines and shrugged off the lascannon fire like it was nothing (only one HP loss stuck after the healing) Though against a good counter assault force that can deal with it easier, it shouldn't be too bad.

the helldrakes: well consider 2 to be a very competitive list build start. if your opponent does not know how to deal with (or reasonably cant) flyers, those alone will murder the whole army hands down. There isn't much that can reliably take one down that isnt a flyer itself.

Martel732 wrote:How many points is the tournament?

Not eyeing a specific tournament, but just in case there was one, I was wondering if a list like this would be competitive. I could add and remove things a little bit, as needed, I think.

Filch wrote:I would get as many 20 men mobs of cultist I could fit in but I prefer csm and giving them fearless from the IoV.

The reason is to supplement low model count with mobs of cheap scoring units.

Yeah, I was thinking fearless cultist would rock in this list. They aren't really dangerous, but they sure could hold objectives without running off. And with all the other threats swimming out on the board, it might leave them un-harrased for a while.

McNinja wrote:You could drop all three helbrutes and get 3 giant blobs of CSM.

If I got more chosen models, I might, but as it stands, I really dislike the csm kits, I think they look stupid. So buying more of models I don't like doesn't add up for me. The helbrutes are cool, and I already have them.

I'm bummed to hear that having 3 heldrakes in a list is not considered friendly, but I understand. I will run only 1 in all friendly games, unless I put it out there that this is a hard list, and that players should know this before wanting to play it. Then I would bring the 3 heldrakes.

With the assumption most tournaments don't go over 2000 points due to time issues, this list is put together wirth the the idea that you aren't going to win on main objectives (Only having 250 points left for scoring units in 2000 points is easy to wipe off the table so that you can't capture any objectives).

So with that in mind, your list needs to dominate secondary objectives in order to achieve a win, or on the other hand you need to completely table your opponent.

Considering that I feel that this isn't competitive enough for tournaments and should be kept as a FLGS list for friends and 'friendly' games (3 helldrakes vs anyone that can't reliably deal with flyers is far from friendly).

Gunlines and tarpit build armies will generally stop you in your tracks, they wont wipe you off the board or completely destroy you but in a tournament they will deny you from getting secondary objectives long enough for them to get the primary objectives. (IMO)

My 2 cents!

This army will have troops at its achilles heel.

If your opponent focus's fire on your troop choices and wipes them out, your -at best- playing for a draw, barring completely tabling your opponent.
Sure 1/3 of the time your helldrakes or fiends count as scoring, but that's not a safe bet.

I'm not sure this fares well versus dual Stormraven or Vendetta spam either. 4 or 5 vendettas make 3 hellturkeys look really stupid. Of course, it's not like much fares well vs 4 or 5 vendettas.

Running large blobs of cultists in a three heldrake list is a bit counter intuitive. Youre heldrakes only have two problems when it comes to roasting your opponent: 2+ armor saves, and your enemies in combat. You cant stop your opponent from using TEQ, but giving him big juicy blobs of lightweight cultists to attack means your heldrakes are soon out of legal targets.

If you do go with a triple drake list, Id advise your infantry options remain small and durable. MSU CSM squads, w/IoV, and equipped for CC.

As a final cavet, if you are going to run so many large HP targets, might want to look into at least 1 walking repair box. I ran a triple forgefiend list with two warpsmiths about a month ago. Between the multitude of saves and repairs, it effectively meant that the only way to kill a forgefiend was to outright blow it up.

Food for thought.

My main issue with the list is the 3 Heldrakes. Not because they are unfriendly but mainly because in a tournament setting they are destined to let you down. When I have had more than 25% of my points wrapped up in reserve flyers there will always be a game or two where they just do not show up in time and you have way to many points that can't really contribute. Flyers seem to be especially problematic because they need time in the board to really be effective.

Just my thoughts.

Its a monster mash list. Not sure that there are many armies out there which can deal with it.

 McNinja wrote:
You could drop all three helbrutes and get 3 giant blobs of CSM.

The helbrutes are so cheap that dropping all three will only get you one bare-bones group of 20.

The problem that I've had with the helbrute is that the multi-melta is too short ranged to be an effective weapon for the first few turns as you stomp to get into range and then 2 dice penetration range. They might work with the maulerfiends. If you rush everything forward, your opponent will probably shoot the fiends first as they would get to his lines the quickest. That would allow you to get into range of the multi-melta.

This list will not be the most competitive (you'll feel silly if you run into a blob of zombies as you plink one at a time with the melta and two or 3 in close combat), but it could do damage. As a suggestion, I would drop the 3rd drake and get an aegis defense line for your weaking cultist to hide behind. Give them a quad so they have a useful weapon (plus the drakes are not great anti-air unless you give them a hades autocannon that shoots the enemy flyer in the tailpipe after you vector strike them). Use the extra points for more scoring bodies.

Might be fun to play, as long as you get first turn.

bogalubov wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
You could drop all three helbrutes and get 3 giant blobs of CSM.

The helbrutes are so cheap that dropping all three will only get you one bare-bones group of 20.

A bare bones 20 man squad of cultists is 90 points. You could get one squad for each Helbrute dropped and have thirty points leftover.

Have you considered dropping a prince and all the brutes in exchange for typhus and all the plague zombies in the world?

Also why does neither prince have the Black Mace?

black mace way out performs a axe of str on a dp imo

I would vs this and win with my orks anyday

Sinny! wrote:
I would vs this and win with my orks anyday

I was kind of thinking the same thing with bugs actually...

Its going to scare MEQ but not much else (Though to be fair to you, there is not much else these days)

Looks like a nice spam list! I approve! How good are Maulerfiends in 6th?

xspire wrote:With the assumption most tournaments don't go over 2000 points due to time issues, this list is put together wirth the the idea that you aren't going to win on main objectives (Only having 250 points left for scoring units in 2000 points is easy to wipe off the table so that you can't capture any objectives).


My 2 cents!

Good 2 cents! Thank you

labmouse42 wrote:This army will have troops at its achilles heel.

If your opponent focus's fire on your troop choices and wipes them out, your -at best- playing for a draw, barring completely tabling your opponent.
Sure 1/3 of the time your helldrakes or fiends count as scoring, but that's not a safe bet.

Reworking list, as I tend to agree.

Martel732 wrote:I'm not sure this fares well versus dual Stormraven or Vendetta spam either. 4 or 5 vendettas make 3 hellturkeys look really stupid. Of course, it's not like much fares well vs 4 or 5 vendettas.

Stormravens and Vendettas will definitlely be hard to deal with. Vs Vendettas, I would try and vector strike as much as possible. Vs Stormravens, I would try and avoid them and kill other stuff, untill they got popped by the Stormravens.

Aipoch wrote:Running large blobs of cultists in a three heldrake list is a bit counter intuitive. Youre heldrakes only have two problems when it comes to roasting your opponent: 2+ armor saves, and your enemies in combat. You cant stop your opponent from using TEQ, but giving him big juicy blobs of lightweight cultists to attack means your heldrakes are soon out of legal targets.

If you do go with a triple drake list, Id advise your infantry options remain small and durable. MSU CSM squads, w/IoV, and equipped for CC.

As a final cavet, if you are going to run so many large HP targets, might want to look into at least 1 walking repair box. I ran a triple forgefiend list with two warpsmiths about a month ago. Between the multitude of saves and repairs, it effectively meant that the only way to kill a forgefiend was to outright blow it up.

Food for thought.

Good food for thought! I was thinking of taking Chaos Daemons as allies and taking Flamers for sure, for anti 2+ armour.

Cpt Stubbs wrote:My main issue with the list is the 3 Heldrakes. Not because they are unfriendly but mainly because in a tournament setting they are destined to let you down. When I have had more than 25% of my points wrapped up in reserve flyers there will always be a game or two where they just do not show up in time and you have way to many points that can't really contribute. Flyers seem to be especially problematic because they need time in the board to really be effective.

Just my thoughts.

Maybe a aegis defense line with coms relay? Or just gamble and save the points, since most of this army is designed to move towards the opponent.

wuestenfux wrote:Its a monster mash list. Not sure that there are many armies out there which can deal with it.

On the board I think it would like quite monstrous. Just my cup of tea

bogalubov wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
You could drop all three helbrutes and get 3 giant blobs of CSM.

The helbrutes are so cheap that dropping all three will only get you one bare-bones group of 20.

The problem that I've had with the helbrute is that the multi-melta is too short ranged to be an effective weapon for the first few turns as you stomp to get into range and then 2 dice penetration range. They might work with the maulerfiends. If you rush everything forward, your opponent will probably shoot the fiends first as they would get to his lines the quickest. That would allow you to get into range of the multi-melta.

This list will not be the most competitive (you'll feel silly if you run into a blob of zombies as you plink one at a time with the melta and two or 3 in close combat), but it could do damage. As a suggestion, I would drop the 3rd drake and get an aegis defense line for your weaking cultist to hide behind. Give them a quad so they have a useful weapon (plus the drakes are not great anti-air unless you give them a hades autocannon that shoots the enemy flyer in the tailpipe after you vector strike them). Use the extra points for more scoring bodies.

Might be fun to play, as long as you get first turn.

They aren't super great, but can do well vs. transports and maybe some troops. I was hoping more to create shields for the maulerfiends, but they don't move as fast. Still more of a convenience issue, bringing them in the list, since I have 3 helbrutes available.

SkinCarver wrote:

bogalubov wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
You could drop all three helbrutes and get 3 giant blobs of CSM.

The helbrutes are so cheap that dropping all three will only get you one bare-bones group of 20.

I do have 60 chaos cultists... so I could make it happen.
A bare bones 20 man squad of cultists is 90 points. You could get one squad for each Helbrute dropped and have thirty points leftover.

mixer86 wrote:Have you considered dropping a prince and all the brutes in exchange for typhus and all the plague zombies in the world?

Also why does neither prince have the Black Mace?

This! I was toying with the idea of buying Typhus the model, just to make cultists fearless. My only purpose is to grab an objective with them, as they are harder than average to whittle them down to nothing.

Sinny! wrote:I would vs this and win with my orks anyday

I'd like to see the match. Where do you live?

Zarrath wrote:Looks like a nice spam list! I approve! How good are Maulerfiends in 6th?

Lol, thanks. I hear daemon engines are good in 6th. I love the models!

Update: I bought 2 more Heldrakes and 2 more Maulerfiends to create this list. I am absolutely loving painting the maulerfiend so far, and I think this list is going to look very badass on the table.

Still debating taking the helbrutes. I'm thinking of playing around with my hq choices, and troop choices to round it out. Also I am thinking of adding in Chaos Damons as allies: Herald ( cheap, and need to figure out a good load out ), 3 to 9 flamers for anti 2+ armour, and maybe 10 plague bearers ( good to hold objectives )

I have Abbadon and a Daemon Prince for hq's, plus the hq from the dark vengeance box set.

I guess this list is not friendly, but not maximized for tournaments either... Oh well, my local players seem to take pretty competitive lists anyways, in general, not stating they create lists that are "fun", nor do they say they are tournament lists either. I will though, forewarn any prospective players that it is not geared towards having fun, as it can get real ugly for current lists ( those that havent really updated to 6th ed. new toys.

Later on I will post a rough draft for my list, and see how it holds up to the thoughts and scrutiny. Big thanks to everyone who contributed!

Played vs a pure Deathwing army list yesterday and got smashed. Relic mission with VP 7-0.

That may be the toughest list I can face with my heldrakes. I took Skulltaker, 5 bloodletters, a nurgle daemon prince with noxious touch and cloud of flies, and 9 flamers for allies and some anti- 2+ armour. Skulltaker did well, as did the flamers. bloodletters gave up first blood.

I took a generic chaos lord with sigil of corruption, plasma pistol, and the murder sword ( the DV chaos lord mini ). Took a 35 man unit of chaos cultist, and a 10 man unit as well. Lost the chaos lord in a challenge, killed by the sarge with st.8 hit, then my unit lost fearless and ran.

Helbrutes got shot and died pretty much, taking out a weapon and immobilizing a ven. dread.

Forgefiends with lasher tendrils did okay, regenerating hull points, subtracting attacks with the lasher tendrils.

Heldrakes did what they could, vector and baleflaming units. My opponent hardly rolled any 1's.

- Not sure about helbrutes in this list anymore, but I don't want to start making this list more competitive, as I like using this list in general, and it's fun.

- Building a custom Typhus for some fearless zombies. Give that a shot and it doesnt seem OP.

- I guess the only thing that makes this a really iffy list as far as whether it's a fun list or a competition list, is the 3 heldrakes. Love the models and i'm keeping them in there, though.

I only just skimmed over and don't think i saw it suggested but with the fliers needing to come in you could invest in a ADL with com relay to get them in with more consistency and then sit a big blob on it next to an objective.

Why Khorne DPs they are by far the worst option other than Slaanesh (which isn't even worth thinking about).

No black mace makes me sad and no psychic powers means no iron arm.

Don't think the Hellbrutes add anything as they are too slow. Only worth taking as fire support in this list. But then brute doesn't get the good fire support support options

Desubot wrote:I only just skimmed over and don't think i saw it suggested but with the fliers needing to come in you could invest in a ADL with com relay to get them in with more consistency and then sit a big blob on it next to an objective.

Thought of that. Everything came in turn 2 though

FlingitNow wrote:Why Khorne DPs they are by far the worst option other than Slaanesh (which isn't even worth thinking about).

No black mace makes me sad and no psychic powers means no iron arm.

Don't think the Hellbrutes add anything as they are too slow. Only worth taking as fire support in this list. But then brute doesn't get the good fire support support options

I took a chaos lord instead of a DP this game, to save on points. I did not have enough points to bring my 3rd maulerfiend in this list. I am going to revise the list and post it later.


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Also waiting for Chaos Daemon update too. I think taking them as allies are great, but hopefully Flamers retain their nasty flamer weapon.