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I am trying to learn Nids. What is the best HQ in the army?

If I use a Swarm Lord, what is the best loadout for him?


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i.e. should it be lash whip and sword or twin-linked devourers?

Swarmlord only has 1 loadout. You can choose which BRB Psychic Powers you pick. Most go Biomancy though.

Best HQ (debately) is:
Hive Tyrant
-Wings
-Devourers w/ BWL (x2)

260 points.

Most people run two of them. Great mobility and good reliable damage. A little brittle if left out to dry. But can be extremely durable with the right Biomancy powers.

Sounds like a nightmare.

What are the BWLs? bone sword/lash whips?

BLW is just shorthand for Brain Leech Worms, which are the stronger variation of the normal Devourer Worms that all larger Tyranids use automatically.

Anyway, viable Tyranid HQs in no particular order:

# Swarmlord
This thing is an absolute monster in combat, and with a couple of good results on the Biomancy table (Iron Arm and Warp Speed being the ideal combination) there isn't really anything he cannot dismember in very short order. He also runs a good number of force multiplier special rules, including enhanced Synapse range, improved Reserves and Outflanking reliability and FNP/FC on a unit of your choice. The downsides are that he is expensive, fairly fragile for a large monster (unless you give him some Tyrant Guard), is rather slow and is a real magnet for enemy firepower (which you can of course use to your advantage).

# Winged Tyrant
A very potent, lethal and speedy predator under 6th Edition. Most people run it with two sets of twin-linked Devourers for added versatility (being able to engage just about anything at range, including enemy flyers). Not as lethal in melee as you might think, and while his FMC rules make him hard to hit, if he gets grounded he will go down fast. An easy unit to use well, and a very rewarding unit to master. There are some really good battle reports on dakka which can show just what a couple of these beasts can accomplish.

# Armoured Shell Tyrant
This is a less popular build under the new rules (giving you less immediate punch than the Winged Tyrant), but a ground-based Tyrant with an Armoured Shell and several Tyrant Guard make an incredible "anvil" unit (even more so if you get FNP or Endurance on the unit), especially since you can use the Tyrant to soak incoming missiles and then divert the nastier AP2 shots onto the Guard through Look Out Sir. As with the winged Tyrant, two twin-linked Devourers are a very popular option here, though I for one have enjoyed a bit of success with an exclusively melee-based build. Not as easy to use as the Winged Tyrant, and will be less likely to give you the easy to see results. Not something to be written off though, especially since you can use it as a very durable Preferred Enemy generator for a ground swarm. Just as slow as the Swarmlord, but arguably harder to kill and a very reliable buff/core for a ground swarm.

# Tervigon
Technically an HQ, but really it's a waste not to take these as Troops and give them scoring unit status.

# Tyranid Prime
An interesting unit for boosting a Deathspitter-armed ranged Warrior brood (a questionable unit choice there though) or giving some longevity to Zoanthropes or Venomthropes through creative model placement. A surprisingly lethal creature in a challenge too if you've gone for a Bonesword and Lash Whip (and there's little reason not to). Less popular in today;s world though.

The only other option is the Parasite of Mortrex. This is a bizarre unit that first of all looks really expensive, then you sit and think about it and think "yeah, I think those rules are actually pretty good". Hard to use, and a bit on the random side relying on Rending. A great "champion" for a unit of Shrikes, or a huge brood of Gargoyles. I have visions of a unit of 30 Gargoyles with a Parasite in their midst storming up a flank. Something to try in the future, but definitely in the shadow of the other options.


Key things to avoid (for Hive Tyrants anyway) would be:

# Deathspitters on a Tyrant. Just pretend that option doesn't exist. How it got through QA I have no idea.
# Thorax Swarm; a neat idea, but it is very expensive and is taken at the expense of either Armoured Shell or Wings. Now, if it wasn't competing with those two, and was maybe 10 points cheaper...
# Indescribable Horror; a total waste of 25 points for something you'll never, ever use.
# Acid Blood. Another neat idea, but since you have to actually lose wounds to activate it, and the enemy has to fail an Initiative test it's not to be trusted (if the Initiative test were removed, it would be an awesome Challenge-revenge toy).

Interesting things that can work if you build around them (but avoid over-investing):

# Regeneration (shockingly helpful on an Armoured Shell Tyrant in a large group of Guard)
# Toxin Sacks (greatly improved under 6th Ed)
# Toxic Miasma (I've been running this recently on a Shell Tyrant, and while not so hot on Marines, it chews through Guard and Eldar really well).

Swarmlords are a nightmare. As an ork player i dont see any way to counter that without loota-dakking the damn thing hoping i kill it before it gets to me, which usually doesnt happen.

Nothing, atleast in my codex, can face it once it gets to me. Ghaz on his WAAAGH! has a chance to, but unlikely still unless i land every single one of my attacks, i had the charge, and he botches his 4+ invul. But when do you take Ghaz these days? lol

Xyptc wrote:
BLW is just shorthand for Brain Leech Worms, which are the stronger variation of the normal Devourer Worms that all larger Tyranids use automatically.

Fantastic post Xyptc!! That definitely helps me understand the pros and cons of each build and how to use them.

In your opinion, what HQ choice would be better for a Nid horde army? i.e. 3 Tervigons?





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The Swarmlord is the one to go for if you want to walk a hive tyrant, in 5th that was different but with biomancy and 4 powers, if you're walking a tyrant it's gotta be him. He needs 1-2 tyrant guard, 1 is often enough. Bubble wrap him behind other units too for a full deathstar effect, keep him alive as long as you can.. Vs anyone that is playing competitively and knows what he does he wont really make it to combat, use his presence to deny areas of the board from your opponent with the threat of this beast.

Flyrants imo should just go for 2x devourer w BLW as above, use them to shoot rabble and hunt vehicles. Keep them safe, remember if you deploy them they start gliding not swooping, so use terrain. Also remember their rules, Smash/Vector strike are both great vs vehicles (especially if your Str is boosted by biomancy for vector strike). They are expensive but if you're safe in their use they really are excellent. Also your most reliable AA (vector strike and TL S6, followed by hive guard and zoans)

Tyranid primes are excellent, use them for wound allocation, not as good as it was in 5th, monsters in combat go all out with their selections (LW/BS + Toxin/Adrenal, hell even throw in regen and you can try to regen a couple wounds if you're lucky, absorbing some ID shots off zoanthropes or just accompanying fexes (if you want a fex tho, take a tervigon instead tbh). Personally I like throwing these in with 15-30 hormagaunts and give them all FNP with the prime somewhere near the back centre ish. If you expect dreadnaughts, give him rending claws with his LW/BS.

For a competitive game, dont bother with using a prime to boost shooty warriors, just take devilgaunts instead (Termagants with devourers - 3 shots each 18" S4. 20 in a pod, land and kill whichever target you give them).

If you want a tervigon, buy 10 termagants and take it as a troop choice with 3 powers (biomancy), crushing claws and toxin.

A random note: Tyranids almost exclusively should go biomancy, a couple in telekensis are decent for anti flyer but, dont rely on them too much

Flyrants are the other nidzilla that urks me, but only if he plays smart.
I usually run 30 lootas regardless of my tactic when im against nidz, if i got points i'll throw dakkajets in too. The instant that thing is in range of 2 of myloota groups (or all 3) it usually dies, but till then that thing is giving me one HELL of a headache as it plasters my boyz squads with that 12shot TL'd insta-paster gun (whatever its called) that rerolls failed wounds on a 2+. Yet to have that take less than 10boyz per turn on its own.

Been loving the dual Flyrants with TL Devourers.

They're not as potent in CC as a LW/BS+Scything Talon type but the shooting makes up for that.

Also they still back a serious punch in CC with S6 and AP2.

I use assault to hide them from the enemy shooting phase. Smash attacks work wonders for this, halving your attacks to ensure that if you win it's only by a narrow margin, then revert to your normal attacks in the enemy assault phase to win combat and free you Flyrant to go off an hunt another target, rinse and repeat as necessary.

I'd also like to point out how AMAZING Hive Commander is, being able to outflank a troop and giving your reserves +1 to come in is really huge esp since Nids rely so heavily on disruptor units like Trygons, Mawlocs, Doom of Malantai and other podded beasties.

Great points on the other options Xyptc! As my force expands I will be playing around with the other forms of Tyrants and will take these suggestions to heart!

Flying Hive Tyrant with 2x Twin-linked Devourers. May take Hive Commander and/or Regeneration depending on your build and how many spare points you have.

Swarmlord with a single guard(in case you get iron arm, to exploit majority toughness rules) is good too, but Flying Hive Tyrants are a lot more versatile: Swarmlord draws fire away from your other units, and he's hard to kill, and he's great at killing any and all space marines in melee. Flying Hive Tyrant is must have: he's your flyer, your anti-flyer defense, a decent psyker, can beat regular marines in melee or with vector strike, and can put out a huge volume of shots. And he's lightning fast.

 amrogers3 wrote:

Xyptc wrote:
BLW is just shorthand for Brain Leech Worms, which are the stronger variation of the normal Devourer Worms that all larger Tyranids use automatically.

Fantastic post Xyptc!! That definitely helps me understand the pros and cons of each build and how to use them.

In your opinion, what HQ choice would be better for a Nid horde army? i.e. 3 Tervigons?

.

You have three good options here.

One (or two) Winged Tyrants with Devourers to give you a fast, hard-hitting hammer that runs interference while your advancing wall of poisonous, adrenaline fuelled Termagants advances.

A Swarmlord and a single Tyrant Guard for extreme assault punch, lots of Biomancy and Preferred Enemy one one unit per turn.

An Armoured Shell Tyrant with Old Adversary to give as many of your already Tervigon-buffed Termagant units Preferred Enemy as you can (and it really helps the Tervigons themselves too).

All three are good options. I suppose it depends on what else is happening in your list (besides a Tervigon trio and Termagants), and what your likely opponents will be. You can of course combine options one and two for Winged Devourer Tyrants with Old Adversary that you fly into the Termagant swarms to buff them at crucial moments, but then those Tyrants are getting pretty expensive...

I'm a fan of the Malanthorpe... ok isn't a good choice if you want a winning HQ but is a 1-3 HQ choice and the mini look cool

Everything that has been said about the Swarmlord, Flyrant, and Prime I agree with. But I feel the need to stick my neck out for the Parasite of Mortrex in smaller games (<1500). He has amazing combat potential, and the amount of chaos that can ensue from spawning large quantities of Ripper Swarms near to melee is a tarpit of obnoxious proportions. As noted I don't believe he'll survive to contribute in a larger game, nor does he bring enough bravado to single-handedly win combats, but I'm always disappointed in the lack of credit he gets.

For those of you who forgo flyrants to instead take a swarmlord,how do you deal with anti air? I want to actually take a swarmlord and guard with an attached prime for some serious wound spreading, however I feel like I'd be leavong myself open to being pummeled by air units...

patsfan32 wrote:
For those of you who forgo flyrants to instead take a swarmlord,how do you deal with anti air? I want to actually take a swarmlord and guard with an attached prime for some serious wound spreading, however I feel like I'd be leavong myself open to being pummeled by air units...

There are a very other reasonable options for anti-air:

- Zoanthropes (Warp Lance is very iffy, though if you have an Old Adversary Tyrant with them it's a little better, and Objuration Mechanicum can disintegrate vehicles of all flavours nicely)
- Hive Guard (again, standing with an OA Tyrant) are reasonable
- Carnifexes with Devourers are reasonable
- Harpies can Vector Strike, and with Skyfire a Stinger Salvo is actually not bad either if you can get the rear armour

There is also an interesting argument that says you can get away with ignoring enemy fliers, and just wipe out everything on the ground.

I run 2 Flyrants in all my lists and 90% of my games played are against my friend who runs IG with 3 Vendettas, EVERY GAME. Some games I focus them down, but most of the time.. I completely ignore them. Yes, they almost kill an entire MC a turn if he gets lucky and I don't with FNP and what not. However I run 7 MCs, 10 including pods. Killing 1 per turn is fine. I continuously focus down troop after troop until I win purely with spawned gants and his lack of objective control. Bring the Swarmlord if it's your playstyle IMHO.

One thing to keep in mind, Vector strikes with Harpies won't do much if anything. They only have a base strength 5 and can't be modified. Also Vector Strikes always hit Side Armor, so vehicles like Vendettas will have Side Armor of 12. Even with rolling on 6's, harpies will only be able to glance Nightscythes and Heldrakes.

Zoanthropes and Hive Guards next to OA is only hitting on 6+ with rerolls on 1's. This is still less than 33%. Closer to 20% (didn't do the exact math). Those are both your Elite choices and the primary way of dealing with AV units, you almost HAVE to save those few shots you get on ground armor.

Carnifexes with S6 devourers (with TL) is definitely your best bet if you pod them in behind the flyers, otherwise, you're look at 2-4 shots hitting, and only 1-3 shots glances/pene'ing. That's really rough. Once again, you'd be better off taking shots on his troops or other ground AV units.

If you can't effectively shot your Flyrants at rear armor, your best bet is to ignore the flyers all together. As I said above, I've had more successful games ignoring them, then trying to down them.