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I'm getting back into 40k after a long hiatus, and am going to be playing with my son primarily. Although I've been playing longer than he has, he's got way more time than I do on his hands so has played more games recently than I have, which makes me feel a bit like an underdog. Dark Angels are my chosen army, whereas my son plays Tyranids.

Just at a glance, most of the tactics that come to mind (Ravenwing swooping in on expensive bikes, Deathwing teleporting into CC situations, etc.) seem like singularly bad ideas against the bugs. I can see the Dakka banner being effective, especially with a LR crusader, but aside from that I'm at something of a loss. At least I don't have to worry about flyers unless he brings a flyrant.

Any other tips or suggestions?

i can't wait until my son is old enough to play.
I am a tyranid player so i can't, in good manner, give you tactics. What i would do if i where in you shoes would be to buy terminators and have epic battles. I would just try to have the cooler looking army. Although, having a cooler looking army than nids is going to be hard.

Is he running tervigons, swarm lord, flying tyrants, ect? The way I see it, having an idea about what he likes will help, but a good foundation is the devastation banner backed by tactical squads. This gives you the ability to quickly destroy the little bugs at a safe distance, and helps with overwatch as well.

After that you need weapons to kill big bugs at a safe distance. Las devastator squads, missile typhoons, sniper scouts and even terminator heavy weapons help with this in order of effectiveness. Finally a quad gun helps put grounding checks on any flying tyrants.

Tie up big mobs with cc tooled dreads

Dakka them at range

Make sure you have large squads for overwatch situations, it isn't very useful to combat squad here

Template weapons vs bugs, high str vs big creatures, so flamers and lascannons, meltas/plasma guns and plasma cannons, or just plain missile launchers

Well, he's still got a limited number of figures, so he can't go full nidzilla. Currently he's got a Tyrant, 3 Carnifexes, a Tervigon, 2 Tyrant Guard (which he sometimes uses as Hive Guard), a Trygon, 2 Zoanthopes, a bunch of warriors, venomthropes, lictors and the little bugs (gaunts/gants/gargs).

It is a lot of fun now to be able to share this hobby with him. I introduced him to it when he was much younger, but he's 12 now and just getting to the point where he can really remember the full ruleset and understand the strategies.

Speaking of termy weapons, what would be the best loadout for a deepstriking Deathwing squad vs. nids? I'm thinking 2x either AC or CML, plus a handful of TH/SS, with the rest using standard SB/PF. Would Heavy Flamers make more sense?

CML gives you the best flexibility since you can switch from Frag to Krak missiles to take out swarms or big beasties as you see fit, not to mention they have great range. As a part-time 'Nid player myself, CML's are scary, I dislike them immensely.

Flamers are just as terrifying if I'm running a lot of squishy units because it means if I want to take an objective away from you with my Troops then i'm going to get barbecued. Fortunately i'm somewhat of a Nidzilla fanatic so they don't pose a huge problem to my lists, I just avoid the templates with my Gants until my big stuff can eat them, then move the Gants in to claim the shinies.

Someone mentioned CC-tooled Dreads to tie up the little beasties, which I can see. My question is, how do those dreads fare against the bigger bugs? Am I better off with a AC/ML dread or a AC/PF/HF dread?

Are there any of the bugs that a squad of Deathwing Knights or TH/SS Termies can't handle and should stay away from?

Cyclones and lighting claws.

Just try your all comers list first. Presumably, you can shoot the anti-tank at the big bus and anti-horde at the little bugs. I really hate building specifically for other lists.

Last I checked the age old space marine tactic of "Shoot the choppy, outshoot the shooty, and shoot the big ones some more" still worked.

Martel - Not looking for a specific list, just noting that Ravenwing and Deathwing tactics, which are very aggressive, take-the-fight-to-the-enemy squads, and that might not work so well against bugs.

I don't really have a all comers list at the moment, because it's been months since I played a game and years since I played regularly. I was just curious if anyone had any good advice for me with this matchup.

Don't underestimate the Dakkabanner!

First game I played against bugs was a dakka-banner list (No LRC!) with 2 full sized tactical squads and 2 divination librarians for them. I Decimated his nid-zilla list and only lost because I didn't go after a relic.

milo wrote:
Martel - Not looking for a specific list, just noting that Ravenwing and Deathwing tactics, which are very aggressive, take-the-fight-to-the-enemy squads, and that might not work so well against bugs.

I don't really have a all comers list at the moment, because it's been months since I played a game and years since I played regularly. I was just curious if anyone had any good advice for me with this matchup.

You are in the same boat as the BA there. Don't forget, mobility can be used to go backwards. Objectives surrendered on turns 2 and 3 can be reclaimed on turns 5 and 6.

Since tyranid players love termagants now, don't be afraid to go bash them in the head with tac marines. Hormagaunts and stealers were more popular before tervigons because they handled meqs much better.

The quandry here is that the ML is an optimal weapon vs Tyranids, but sucks vs lots of other lists (Deathwing, anyone?) I never put MLs in my all comers lists. I pay for the AP 1 and AP 2 shots. Everyone goes about Long Fang ML squads and BA devs with MLs. I never use MLs except as typhoons. I even prefer heavy flamers for terminators over the cyclone, because I am always teleporting them in with a homer, not foot slogging. But STR 8 AP 3 rocks the socks off the tyranids MCs.

Another thing: should the DA flier be in all comers lists? Or in a tyranid meta list? If so, how does it fare vs skyrants?

Wait a minute, do you really need internet advice on how to beat your twelve year old son? He must be some Tyranid child savant general! Just how competitive are your games going to be?

I am still also struggling with strategies to kill Nidzillas, as DA don't have too many effective bug-hunting units. Some ideas: DWK seem very effective, especially in large units; TMCs have problems with Deathstar type units, especially ones with a 2+/3+ which can smite them at Str 10 and stay a threat after with Str 6 attacks. DWKs on the tervigons, especially, and the Carnis?

Also, Demolisher cannons on vindis combined with Rad grenades from BKs can insta-death most TMCs, although they have Biomancy now so they'd be buffing up to t-8/9. BK's in general seem like extremely effective TMC hunters with massed plasma fire and 4 rending attacks each on the charge.

If you can spare the dough for FW, Mortis Contemptors are also excellent bug hunters, especially with that 12 shot BS 5 rending AC they have.

Ultimately, volume of fire lays TMCs low, and they have huge problems dealing with AV14 outside of assault. So it seems Dev Standard LRCs with counter-assaulting DWK and Ravenwing plasma support is the way to go.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Wait a minute, do you really need internet advice on how to beat your twelve year old son? He must be some Tyranid child savant general! Just how competitive are your games going to be?

I haven't beaten him yet (only 2 games so far, though, and he had another one of my friends coaching him), although I do usually handicap myself somewhat. He's actually remarkably good for a kid his age. These will not be super competitive -- like I said, the main reason I ask is because Tyranids seem like a bad matchup against DA.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I am still also struggling with strategies to kill Nidzillas, as DA don't have too many effective bug-hunting units. Some ideas: DWK seem very effective, especially in large units; TMCs have problems with Deathstar type units, especially ones with a 2+/3+ which can smite them at Str 10 and stay a threat after with Str 6 attacks. DWKs on the tervigons, especially, and the Carnis?

Good advice. I only have 5 DW Knights right now, but I do plan to use them.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Also, Demolisher cannons on vindis combined with Rad grenades from BKs can insta-death most TMCs, although they have Biomancy now so they'd be buffing up to t-8/9. BK's in general seem like extremely effective TMC hunters with massed plasma fire and 4 rending attacks each on the charge.

Unfortunately, I don't have a Vindicator or Whirlwind; I think both would be great choices. I do like the squad of BKs -- comparing them cost wise with a three man RAS with 2x Plasma and a Plasma Pistol, you basically get Skilled Rider and additional attacks for free, plus you have the option of the grenade launcher. I was planning to try to run a four man squad with 1 RWGL.

What about TL-AC Razorbacks, or a Dakka Predator?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
The quandry here is that the ML is an optimal weapon vs Tyranids, but sucks vs lots of other lists (Deathwing, anyone?) I never put MLs in my all comers lists. I pay for the AP 1 and AP 2 shots. Everyone goes about Long Fang ML squads and BA devs with MLs. I never use MLs except as typhoons. I even prefer heavy flamers for terminators over the cyclone, because I am always teleporting them in with a homer, not foot slogging. But STR 8 AP 3 rocks the socks off the tyranids MCs.

Would a 5x Dev team with 2xML and 2xLC be a good loadout for a TAC list? You have the ability to drop a couple of small templates on a horde, and that should be effective against any but the best armor, right?

Martel732 wrote:
Another thing: should the DA flier be in all comers lists? Or in a tyranid meta list? If so, how does it fare vs skyrants?

I wish I had one so I could test it out. I think the DA fliers are much better anti-infantry than anti-flyer, but could be effective as tank hunters if you can get to rear armor.

milo wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Another thing: should the DA flier be in all comers lists? Or in a tyranid meta list? If so, how does it fare vs skyrants?

I wish I had one so I could test it out. I think the DA fliers are much better anti-infantry than anti-flyer, but could be effective as tank hunters if you can get to rear armor.

With a TL Las you could certainly take out fliers, it's just not an instant-win button. Of course they both seem to shine better as close-air-support to me as well. It's not bad against infantry and if you load up on shots it can be devastating versus light infantry mobs to the point you can otherwise ignore them and let the fighter(s) pick them off. Versus tanks on the other hand will depend on the tank I think. Rear armor isn't hard to get to if you want it unless the target is on the edge and in that case side armor is usually good enough. I haven't gotten to play my usual nids but I would imagine against a skyrant that the Nephilim with the Avenger should be able to spam it. Just don't let it get close.

I wouldn't see why you couldn't put in TAC lists and they all have some flexibility to them. Certainly not a requirement though as you can swap out for other units...units I would probably take with it anyway but I believe in overkill.