Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok so in the Coven throne rule for the battle of will says you must subtract your LD of the Coven throne...

But when I look on the statline the coven throne dose not have a LD value, so my question is that do you use the VC lord LD in place?

Cheers to all comments.

Chariots use the Ld value of their riders.

A chariot is also a unit, and the rules for a unit say that the highest Ld value in the unit(in the case of multiple values) is what is used.

The handmaidens are LD7.
A vampire riding it is Ld7.
A vampire lord riding it is Ld10.

You would use whatever is the highest (handmaiden or character, or if within range, the Generals leadership).


Here's an example of Battle of Wills from my last game.
Coven throne charges into the flank of chosen of tzeench.
The throne is within 12" of my vampire lord, so I use my generals leadership of 10.
The Chosen of Tzeench are Ld8, being led by an exalted hero BSB.

Terror banner on the chosen cause them to not take fear tests.
Impact hits are resolved.
Then BSB issues a challenge that the ghast to the front accepts.
Handmaidens swing and kill a chosen.
BSB kills the ghast in the challenge (Init6)
Vampire hero kills 1 chosen.
Now, finally at init 5, chosen swing and prior to their attacks the battle of wills takes place.
Chosen roll a D6 and add 7 (leadership 8, -1 for my aura of dark majesty). Chosen roll a 3, for a total of 10.
Throne rolls a D6 and adds my generals leadership of 10. Throne rolls a 4 for a total of 14.
The chaos total is subtracted from the Thrones total, 14 -10 = 4.
The chosen are bewitched. They must re-roll successful hits.
I vampires lose combat by 2, and crumble for 1 since the BSB is near the fight.

In the next round of combat, the exaulted challenges again, and the vampire on the throne must accept. After the handmaidens fail, the battle of wills takes place, and the chaos player rolls a 2 while I roll a 6. I win by 7, and the chosen hack themselves up pretty good, while they do not swing at ghouls or throne at all.
Ghouls do almost nothing, but win by the kills the chosen inflict on themselves. The chosen break and are run down by the swift striding throne.


I've had decent luck with the throne. The key seems to be, keep the vampire hero riding it cheap, and keep in near a vampire lord (Ld10). More often than not, the throne vampire hero does not survive the game, but the throne does. The throne seems to work best with other very tough to kill units. Throne + knight, black coach, crypt horrors and vargulf are work well. It is very risky to throw the throne into a fight with ghouls/skeletons/zombies, as they can give up so much combat res that the throne crumbles to death.

HawaiiMatt wrote:
More often than not, the throne vampire hero does not survive the game, but the throne does. The throne seems to work best with other very tough to kill units. Throne + knight, black coach, crypt horrors and vargulf are work well.

This and this! I also use a throne, and do much the same. Throne, Black Coach, Varghulf, and a unit of Black Knights led by the Vampire Lord. Four ridiculous targets, always keep the Throne near the Vamp Lord. Vamp hero dies usually, Throne survives.

One thing that I really don't like about the Throne (that I just found out last game against Empire) is that, unless you get the best result on Battle of Wills, it doesn't do anything against cannons, which are the one thing that will usually be shooting at it. Really made me almost reconsider the Throne...

 Tangent wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:
More often than not, the throne vampire hero does not survive the game, but the throne does. The throne seems to work best with other very tough to kill units. Throne + knight, black coach, crypt horrors and vargulf are work well.

This and this! I also use a throne, and do much the same. Throne, Black Coach, Varghulf, and a unit of Black Knights led by the Vampire Lord. Four ridiculous targets, always keep the Throne near the Vamp Lord. Vamp hero dies usually, Throne survives.

One thing that I really don't like about the Throne (that I just found out last game against Empire) is that, unless you get the best result on Battle of Wills, it doesn't do anything against cannons, which are the one thing that will usually be shooting at it. Really made me almost reconsider the Throne...

It doesn't do anything against cannons ever. Shots that don't roll to hit don't trigger battle of wills. But, with the other targets I'll run with the throne, if the cannon fires at the throne in the first place, I'm already winning.

-Matt

My Throne is more expensive than my Black Coach, and my Varghulf, even without the vampire riding it. Why do you consider it a win?

because it has a 4++, and can heal itself every time the vampire casts a LoV spell I would assume...

 Tangent wrote:
My Throne is more expensive than my Black Coach, and my Varghulf, even without the vampire riding it. Why do you consider it a win?

Because it survives while other targets would have perished.

-Matt

It's got a worse toughness, worse armor save, is more expensive than the Black Coach, is a large target, and has no potential to go fully ethereal. How is it surviving longer than the Coach? I suppose this is toughness aside considering cannons are firing at it.