New Apocalypse Book

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**pretre**

Update 3/8/13

via shaso_iceborn in the Faeit 212 comment sections

March 7, 2013 at 4:18 PM
Apocalypse Redux (apoc for 6th ed) but I am not certain if it is late June or early July.

I have been hearing rumours about a plastic Warhound but personally I wouldn't get my hopes up.

As always there's the rumor about a plastic Thunderhawk as well, perhaps with fliers being in 6th the rumor finally has merit, I however am taking lots of salt with this one.

via an anonymous source from the Faeit 212 inbox
*June/July is Apocalypse.
*GW has been looking at new ultra-large plastic kits timed to release with Apocalypse.
*hinted that one of the kits could be a plastic Thunderhawk. (was unsure)
*also models as in plural, so I think it's fair to say there's at least one other plastic superheavy due alongside this.

via a separate anonymous source (checking in to help us navigate rumors)

Apocalypse for 6th edition is this summer.
There are no super heavy flyers coming.

I am going to say that I think this closes the rumors on a plastic thunderhawk (because of the source), but that it leaves some exciting possibilities on a large plastic kit or two this summer. Plastic titans would be way too cool not to get one or two. June and July are going to be exciting.

Jon (not his real name, no permission was given) from the Faeit 212 inbox wrote:A new Apocalypse book is apparently in the works and will bring everything up on par with 6th edition. This rumor set has a release date somewhere around June/July. It looks like its going to be a busy summer around these parts.

Please remember that these are rumors.

via Jon (not his real name, no permission was given) from the Faeit 212 inbox
*New Apocalypse book set for release in June/ July
*Contents Include
-Rules for 6th edition including new point costs
-New formations including flying squadrons
-New Asset Card
-New Scenarios
-Battle Reports

and more...

Almost more interesting than the rumor is that maybe Natfka will start labelling his sources with unique pseudonyms.

**Lockark**

Wait... Is this a new apoc core book from gw, or a new forgeworld apoc expanstion?

**kenshin620**

Lockark wrote:
Wait... Is this a new apoc core book from gw, or a new forgeworld apoc expanstion?

The rumor posted does say FW

And gw doesnt really seem too interested in actually updating their expansions. I could be wrong I suppose

**pretre**

I clarified the title.

**-Loki-**

Hope they redo the rules for the Heirophant and Barbed Heirodule.

**SickSix**

Wait I'm confused.... What was the FW Apocalypse Second Edition???

**kenshin620**

SickSix wrote:
Wait I'm confused.... What was the FW Apocalypse Second Edition???

That was a slew of new FW stuff for 5th edition including the Contemptor Dreadnought

**Peregrine**

SickSix wrote:
Wait I'm confused.... What was the FW Apocalypse Second Edition???

Just an update to IA:Apocalypse to give current rules to units that were first published in 4th edition. While the title said "Apocalypse" the book also included quite a few units for standard 40k.

This refers to the rumor that GW would be publishing a 6th edition version of the Apocalypse expansion. According to this rumor FW is going to be doing it, which makes sense given that FW has been doing all of the Apocalypse stuff for the past few years (including a 6th edition update to the rules) while GW seems to have no real interest in publishing anything Apocalypse-related.

**yakface**

SickSix wrote:
Wait I'm confused.... What was the FW Apocalypse Second Edition???

I assume you're talking about Imperial Armor Apocalypse 2nd edition?

That was just the latest collection of IA rules updates for FW stuff that hasn't had its rules updated in a numbered IA book in a while.

This rumor is talking about FW actually issuing a new Apocalypse core rulebook for 6th edition...which is probably where Apocalypse should be handled from here on out. Because FW is the only ones who have actually updated the core Apoc rules in the years since Apoc was released in 4th edition. Not updating an expansion for 2+ editions just doesn't work when so much of FW's models are built around that expansion.

So frankly GW should let that expansion go completely over to FW, IMHO. Or in other words, I hope this rumor is true.

**SickSix**

Well Crap. I just ordered IA Apoc 2e a couple days ago LOL....

**yakface**

SickSix wrote:
Well Crap. I just ordered IA Apoc 2e a couple days ago LOL....

You'll be fine. This rumored release won't have any effect on that book (barring perhaps updating a few of the same units as each FW book tends to do).

**MajorWesJanson**

If this is a full reboot of Apocalypse for 6th, I'm on board. Hopefully it will fix D weapons, as they need it badly. And I hope it actually is allowed to modify stats for models that have GW rules now, like the Tigershark, Heirophant, Warhound, ect.

**yakface**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
If this is a full reboot of Apocalypse for 6th, I'm on board. Hopefully it will fix D weapons, as they need it badly. And I hope it actually is allowed to modify stats for models that have GW rules now, like the Tigershark, Heirophant, Warhound, ect.

You have to think that if this rumor is true, then this would be the main reason behind it. Basically right now FW is not allowed to update or FAQ GW studio rules, so the few units that are still found in the core Apoc rulebook are 'stuck in time'.

If FW completely takes over the Apoc banner and publishes a new core Apoc rulebook, then they would finally have the ability to update the rules for the Hierophant, etc.

But personally I wouldn't hold out too much hope for major things like Stength D weapons being altered too much...FW has already released core Apoc rules updates via PDF to mesh with 6th edition and they're pretty much just a case of fixing the current rules to fit with 6th edition conventions, rather than anything major. So I would personally be surprised if/when they release a new Apoc core rulebook they make any major changes to stuff like the D-Weapon rules.

**Peregrine**

yakface wrote:
Basically right now FW is not allowed to update or FAQ GW studio rules, so the few units that are still found in the core Apoc rulebook are 'stuck in time'.

Not true actually. It might have been at one point, but IA:Aeronautica has updated the Nightwing, Barracuda and Thunderhawk (and possibly others) from the original Apocalypse book.

So I would personally be surprised if/when they release a new Apoc core rulebook they make any major changes to stuff like the D-Weapon rules.

Well, they did make one major change: D-weapons no longer give a +1 bonus on the damage table (on top of any bonus for AP1/2 or whatever).

**MajorWesJanson**

yakface wrote:

But personally I wouldn't hold out too much hope for major things like Stength D weapons being altered too much...FW has already released core Apoc rules updates via PDF to mesh with 6th edition and they're pretty much just a case of fixing the current rules to fit with 6th edition conventions, rather than anything major. So I would personally be surprised if/when they release a new Apoc core rulebook they make any major changes to stuff like the D-Weapon rules.

True, but that was to bring all the current Apoc rules into line with 6th edition. This sounds like it is potentially an Apocalypse 2nd Edition, which adjusts the core elements of Apoc rather than just patching over inconsistencies with the fact that Apoc was designed for 4th Edition and we are now in 6th.

FW could also easily take advantage of the fact that many of the elements of various expansions are now included in the core rules- Fortifications from planetstrike are now in the BRB, fliers from Apoc are now in the core system, there is a mechanic for extra FOCs and allies. Apoc could focus on what is left- Superheavy vehicles, gargantuan creatures, strategems, even larger games. Imagine if superheavies and gargantuans were allowed to break the 14 AV or 10 max stat limit, if Apoc simply modified the FoC to allow one formation or superheavy unit per primary detachment, and instead of a max of 2 detachments, 1 primary allowed per 2000 points. Maybe also allow different allied detachments per primary detachment.

**yakface**

MajorWesJanson wrote:

True, but that was to bring all the current Apoc rules into line with 6th edition. This sounds like it is potentially an Apocalypse 2nd Edition, which adjusts the core elements of Apoc rather than just patching over inconsistencies with the fact that Apoc was designed for 4th Edition and we are now in 6th.

FW could also easily take advantage of the fact that many of the elements of various expansions are now included in the core rules- Fortifications from planetstrike are now in the BRB, fliers from Apoc are now in the core system, there is a mechanic for extra FOCs and allies. Apoc could focus on what is left- Superheavy vehicles, gargantuan creatures, strategems, even larger games. Imagine if superheavies and gargantuans were allowed to break the 14 AV or 10 max stat limit, if Apoc simply modified the FoC to allow one formation or superheavy unit per primary detachment, and instead of a max of 2 detachments, 1 primary allowed per 2000 points. Maybe also allow different allied detachments per primary detachment.

The FOC for Apoc I'm sure would be on the table, but no way they change the AV14/T10 limits for a couple of reasons:

1) GW expansions are designed to sit on top of the core rules. That means statlines have to follow the basic restrictions of the game.
2) More importantly, changing those things would require EVERY FW super-heavy to potentially need a re-release of their rules, something I'm sure FW is keen to avoid, given how they struggle just to keep the myriad of rules they have current at any given time.

So I think you'd be looking at new strategems, mission rules, etc, but when it comes to the core Apoc rules (Super-Heavies & Gargantuan Creatures), I think the updated FW version is probably pretty close (if not exactly) what we should expect to see.

**kenshin620**

There has been a vehicle with AV15

Though it was the giant objective Ork Train

**yakface**

kenshin620 wrote:
There has been a vehicle with AV15

Though it was the giant objective Ork Train

That must have been like a mission special objective or something?

Because that's not an Apoc Datasheet ever published that I'm aware of.

But regardless, even if there are some instances of the AV14 limit being broken it still doesn't mean that a new Apoc book would suddenly start doing that willy-nilly because it truly would throw too many things into chaos (and not the army type).

**Peregrine**

Plus we already see what FW's version of Apocalypse 6th edition is: very small rule changes done to bring the game in line with 6th edition's core mechanics (hull points for superheavies, etc). After several books published with their 6th edition update rules it would be really surprising for them to change things entirely and go off in a new direction.

Changes in a new Apocalypse game are going to be two things:

1) Updates to any Apocalypse units/formations that have 4th/5th edition rules to make them function properly in 6th.

2) New rules for playing an Apocalypse game: a revised basic mission, special scenarios, guidelines for handling allies, etc. IOW, the parts of the original expansion that haven't already been updated by FW.

**yakface**

Peregrine wrote:
Plus we already see what FW's version of Apocalypse 6th edition is: very small rule changes done to bring the game in line with 6th edition's core mechanics (hull points for superheavies, etc). After several books published with their 6th edition update rules it would be really surprising for them to change things entirely and go off in a new direction.

Changes in a new Apocalypse game are going to be two things:

1) Updates to any Apocalypse units/formations that have 4th/5th edition rules to make them function properly in 6th.

2) New rules for playing an Apocalypse game: a revised basic mission, special scenarios, guidelines for handling allies, etc. IOW, the parts of the original expansion that haven't already been updated by FW.

I totally concur.

FW has been releasing alternate Apocalypse missions for years now in the back of their books as appendices, so you gotta figure if they're re-doing the core Apoc book they'll throw a good selection of different Apoc missions in there.

**Quark**

*cough*

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/02/a-correction-from-yesterday-misplaced.html

When I received, it was all in one paragraph, so I decided to just rewrite it, and in doing so (I normally dont rewrite rumors but was trying to make it much easier to read for everyone) created an error from what was told me.
...
Basically what I added was the word Forgeworld to the rumor, when it was not in the email. The only excuse I can give is that I made a mistake in it, is that I tend sometimes to type faster than I am reading, and my fingers fill in the gaps.

**kenshin620**

Interesting indeed if it is gonna be from Geedub

**reds8n**

Would help push those super heavies which there's plastic kits for but no current rules for eh ?

**kenshin620**

reds8n wrote:
Would help push those super heavies which there's plastic kits for but no current rules for eh ?

Which are those?

**SickSix**

So if it is a GW release, maybe we will see some cool discounted Apoc box sets again.

**Gorlack**

yakface wrote:
kenshin620 wrote:
There has been a vehicle with AV15

Though it was the giant objective Ork Train

That must have been like a mission special objective or something?

Because that's not an Apoc Datasheet ever published that I'm aware of.

But regardless, even if there are some instances of the AV14 limit being broken it still doesn't mean that a new Apoc book would suddenly start doing that willy-nilly because it truly would throw too many things into chaos (and not the army type).

The "Ghost Stride Phalanx" from White Dwarf 389 allows a Ghost Ark to reach AV15, so there are at least one example.

But, as you also write, I highly doubt this will be anything but an extreme exception. FW have released a lot of Super Heavies, but have still not shown willingness to break the AV 14 cap - and I hope they dont. What's next after that? AV 26? Then what? 27? It seems like a slippery slope of one-up'ing to me...

Cheers

Gorlack

**Dr. What**

I don't mean to burst any bubbles, but the title is wrong.

The word Forgeworld wasn't in the rumor.

Source:

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/02/a-correction-from-yesterday-misplaced.html

**pretre**

Dr. What wrote:
I don't mean to burst any bubbles, but the title is wrong.

The word Forgeworld wasn't in the rumor.

Source:

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/02/a-correction-from-yesterday-misplaced.html

I don't mean to burst any bubbles, but the title was right.

The word Forgeworld was in the rumor.

Source:
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/02/a-correction-from-yesterday-misplaced.html

In all seriousness though, I updated the title of the thread.

**Kroothawk**

kenshin620 wrote:
reds8n wrote:
Would help push those super heavies which there's plastic kits for but no current rules for eh ?

Which are those?

Baneblade, Shadowsword, and Stompa, I guess.

**pretre**

via shaso_iceborn in the Faeit 212 comment sections

March 7, 2013 at 4:18 PM
Apocalypse Redux (apoc for 6th ed) but I am not certain if it is late June or early July.

I have been hearing rumours about a plastic Warhound but personally I wouldn't get my hopes up.

As always there's the rumor about a plastic Thunderhawk as well, perhaps with fliers being in 6th the rumor finally has merit, I however am taking lots of salt with this one.

via an anonymous source from the Faeit 212 inbox
*June/July is Apocalypse.
*GW has been looking at new ultra-large plastic kits timed to release with Apocalypse.
*hinted that one of the kits could be a plastic Thunderhawk. (was unsure)
*also models as in plural, so I think it's fair to say there's at least one other plastic superheavy due alongside this.

via a separate anonymous source (checking in to help us navigate rumors)

Apocalypse for 6th edition is this summer.
There are no super heavy flyers coming.

I am going to say that I think this closes the rumors on a plastic thunderhawk (because of the source), but that it leaves some exciting possibilities on a large plastic kit or two this summer. Plastic titans would be way too cool not to get one or two. June and July are going to be exciting.