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We have a complete a*shat in our Journeyman's League that wants to bring a Stormwall Colossal with pHaley at 20 points. The rules of the league allow it to be played but he his doing it just so he can completely smash all the new players that have been attracted to the league. I had a run in with this guy last week when I smashed him completely he threw a fit and quit the game claiming cheating. Three owners of the store and two other players watched and told me that he should be ashamed since it was him that cheated. He was pissed so he told us he is running a Stormwall this week at 20 points and the rest of the league to win it all and new players be damned.

So in response we have been trying to figure out a way to negate his Stormwall with terrain that way he will have to play the terrain and the enemy. Here is my idea:

Halfway into the board on the left flank pockets of deep water with only one path out of three that is wide enough for a huge base to pass through covering 16" by 16" of the board. Center of the thick forest approx 12" wide and 16" long. On the right flank impassible hills with trees ontop of the hills set up like the deep water. While the Stormwall has pathfinder it will not be able to shoot across the board except where the deep water is.

Now here is my question:

Is a colossal disabled the second its base hit's a deep water terrain? Or does it have to begin or end its activation on the deep water terrain to be disabled?

Thank you.

Warjacks have to knocked down in deep water to be disabled.

Though, I'm unsure if you can knock down a Colossal.

The rules say a Warjack in deep water is RFP. Colossals are a type of Warjack(Light, Heavy, and Colossal)

So if the Colossal ends its activation touching it it gets RFP.


Just FYI, you must declare to him that its deep water at the beginning of the game. And since Colossals can never be moved outside their activation you will have to have him move it into the water.



This is a dick move BTW, even with his attitude.

Thank you for the ruling.

I know it is a dick move. We lost three new players to this guy driving them away. We are doing this to help they new people survive against thus a*shat. If he leaves the group the store doesnt care since he hasnt bought a single thing in the store since they opened three years ago. Plus he is 400 pounds and has imploded 10 chairs in the past six months.

You can't place Colossals or Gargantuans.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The rules say a Warjack in deep water is RFP. Colossals are a type of Warjack(Light, Heavy, and Colossal)

So if the Colossal ends its activation touching it it gets RFP.


Just FYI, you must declare to him that its deep water at the beginning of the game. And since Colossals can never be moved outside their activation you will have to have him move it into the water.



This is a dick move BTW, even with his attitude.

It doesn't even have to end it's activation. The moment a Warjack's base touches deep water it's RFP'd.

It's not just a dick move. It's explicitly against the rules you're not allowed to place terrain in such a way such that it's purposefully disadvantageous to another player. For someone who is claiming "It's him that's cheating! Not me" you're pretty quick to explicitly ask for ways to cheat when you're up against something you're having trouble dealing with. It's also just a plain ineffective idea. The Stormwall has enough range to cover large portions of the board from across whatever you're putting down, all deep water will do is keep things from getting in melee with it. Also a 12"x16" forest isn't even remotely close to a sensible terrain piece to begin with. Read the SR2013 packet for sane terrain guidelines.

This is seriously weak. I didn't think I'd ever say "Read Page 5" as it's downright silly, but seriously "Read Page 5".

sqir666 wrote:
Warjacks have to knocked down in deep water to be disabled.

No, thats shallow water. Deep Water RFPs warjacks. No knockdown required.

If you look at the board it is even for both sides. Plus it teaches new players on how terrain effects the game. Yes it is a dick board but you have to understand that the league is about teaching and bringing people in not about winning at all costs. Legion, Circle, Minions pretty much anythjng that can give pathfinder will love that board. The Stormwall has pathfinder so what is so horride for him. He has been playing for years so he should know how to deal with it.

I think you've slightly missed the point of page 5. The goal is to win at all costs, while not being a dick about it.

This guy is playing to win, which is good. But he's being a dick. Which is not good.


You are stooping to the level of being a dick to teach him a lesson, which isn't good. It won't teach him anything. It'll just make him feel angry, and rightfully so in this case.

Talk to him to solve the issue.




And bringing a colossal to a 20 point game is not a dick move either. Its actually a poor choice on his part.

As Protectorate, I could take 3 crusaders for the cost of his Stormwall and probably only lose 1 for the piece trade.

Colossals are big, but they arn't scary. A regular Heavy warjack can put them in need of a serious repair job. Two can total a Colossal.

Heck, a full unit of Vengers under the effect of ignite and battledriven will one round an untouched Stormwall.

I stand completely corrected.

Thats ok, water from my limited experience doesn't get used as often as it should.

 Pipboy101 wrote:
If you look at the board it is even for both sides.

So in response we have been trying to figure out a way to negate his Stormwall with terrain.

You're lying to yourself.

I talked over with the store, we will make the forest 16" long by 6" wide, reduce the number of impassible and deep water markers.

I do want you to understand this guy. When you talk to him about his play he glazes over and still does what he wants. He took a new guy and played him. Destroyed the new guy and then called him stupid plus said that he should just give the minis to him because it is a waste in the new players hands. That guy never came back. He will talk bad about the store but will cheat to win store credit then bitch about how the other stores give more credit.

The store wants him to leave on his own without any confrontation as he flames stores hard core on FB and anywhere someone will listen when confronted. He even filed a BBB complaint on a flgs when confronted. Its sounds crazy but it happened. The guy is a gaming locust.

 Pipboy101 wrote:
I talked over with the store, we will make the forest 16" long by 6" wide, reduce the number of impassible and deep water markers.

I do want you to understand this guy. When you talk to him about his play he glazes over and still does what he wants. He took a new guy and played him. Destroyed the new guy and then called him stupid plus said that he should just give the minis to him because it is a waste in the new players hands. That guy never came back. He will talk bad about the store but will cheat to win store credit then bitch about how the other stores give more credit.

The store wants him to leave on his own without any confrontation as he flames stores hard core on FB and anywhere someone will listen when confronted. He even filed a BBB complaint on a flgs when confronted. Its sounds crazy but it happened. The guy is a gaming locust.

Right. We're supposed to buy some story about this crazy "Gaming Locust" who is cheating to "Win Store Credit" when he never buys anything, when the only person you've offered any evidence as to their cheating is you. As you're here trying to find ways to cheat. I mean seriously "The fat guy broke all our chairs" /eyeroll.

Look if there is someone the community & store don't want around, they can bar him from the property. Just don't expect anyone to pat you on the back or give you the "OK" on your explicit cheating and grossly degenerate 16" forests.

Have you thought of just changing the league rules to disallow Huge bases?

Here is a wacky crazy idea......

Kick the guy out of the league and the store. He is obviously bad for business and hurting other players. Why are we even having this conversation?

Chongara wrote:

 Pipboy101 wrote:
I talked over with the store, we will make the forest 16" long by 6" wide, reduce the number of impassible and deep water markers.

I do want you to understand this guy. When you talk to him about his play he glazes over and still does what he wants. He took a new guy and played him. Destroyed the new guy and then called him stupid plus said that he should just give the minis to him because it is a waste in the new players hands. That guy never came back. He will talk bad about the store but will cheat to win store credit then bitch about how the other stores give more credit.

The store wants him to leave on his own without any confrontation as he flames stores hard core on FB and anywhere someone will listen when confronted. He even filed a BBB complaint on a flgs when confronted. Its sounds crazy but it happened. The guy is a gaming locust.

Right. We're supposed to buy some story about this crazy "Gaming Locust" who is cheating to "Win Store Credit" when he never buys anything, when the only person you've offered any evidence to their cheating is you. As you're here trying to find ways to cheat. I mean seriously "The fat guy broke all our chairs" /eyeroll.

Look if there is someone the community & store don't want around, they can bar him from the property. Just don't expect anyone to pat you on the back or give you the "OK" on your explicit cheating and grossly degenerate 16" forests.

You want hear about him cheating:

1.) He told a new player that you cannot check your command when you want.
2.) Knocks over minis to he can set them up a few millimeters back or forward so they will be in combat or not.
3.) Will move terrain because it interfers with model placement but then uses the moved terrain so he can have LOS or have it blocked.

This is just a few things I have caught him doing over the past two weeks to new players. When called on it and I have he has thrown a fit, stormed out yelling at people that are walking by or trying to come into the store that the store cheats the players. As I said before the store wants to get rid of the guy quietly and have him leave on his own.

Plus the 16" forest gets used all the time because they have that terrain piece so no one in the store cares when it is on the board.

 Pipboy101 wrote:

Chongara wrote:

 Pipboy101 wrote:
I talked over with the store, we will make the forest 16" long by 6" wide, reduce the number of impassible and deep water markers.

I do want you to understand this guy. When you talk to him about his play he glazes over and still does what he wants. He took a new guy and played him. Destroyed the new guy and then called him stupid plus said that he should just give the minis to him because it is a waste in the new players hands. That guy never came back. He will talk bad about the store but will cheat to win store credit then bitch about how the other stores give more credit.

The store wants him to leave on his own without any confrontation as he flames stores hard core on FB and anywhere someone will listen when confronted. He even filed a BBB complaint on a flgs when confronted. Its sounds crazy but it happened. The guy is a gaming locust.

Right. We're supposed to buy some story about this crazy "Gaming Locust" who is cheating to "Win Store Credit" when he never buys anything, when the only person you've offered any evidence to their cheating is you. As you're here trying to find ways to cheat. I mean seriously "The fat guy broke all our chairs" /eyeroll.

Look if there is someone the community & store don't want around, they can bar him from the property. Just don't expect anyone to pat you on the back or give you the "OK" on your explicit cheating and grossly degenerate 16" forests.

You want hear about him cheating:

1.) He told a new player that you cannot check your command when you want.
2.) Knocks over minis to he can set them up a few millimeters back or forward so they will be in combat or not.
3.) Will move terrain because it interfers with model placement but then uses the moved terrain so he can have LOS or have it blocked.

This is just a few things I have caught him doing over the past two weeks to new players. When called on it and I have he has thrown a fit, stormed out yelling at people that are walking by or trying to come into the store that the store cheats the players. As I said before the store wants to get rid of the guy quietly and have him leave on his own.

Plus the 16" forest gets used all the time because they have that terrain piece so no one in the store cares when it is on the board.

1) You can't. You can only measure Control Range at any time. Command Range is strictly checked during unit's activations leader-to-trooper or if it belongs to some relevant ability that needs to resolve.
2 & 3) These are reasons to bar him from the store, not cheat yourself.

Reconsider your terrain choices. 16" is insane for a forest. Terrain should typically be about 4-7" on any side. I can see going larger on things like hills, or really interactive structures as they tend to affect people equally for the most part. While they're a good starting point, not every game has to strictly follow tournament guidelines. However a 16" forest is absurd as it not only creates a massive advantage in favor of pathfinder & hunter/eyeless sight (lol Ravagores) it also covers a massive portion of the board in 1 terrain type which makes for at best a stagnant play experience even if it isn't skewing the matchup on faction alone.

George Spiggott wrote:Have you thought of just changing the league rules to disallow Huge bases?

I wish we could but the League is being run by an outside group and the store argreed to play it using their model restrictions.

darefsky wrote:Here is a wacky crazy idea......

Kick the guy out of the league and the store. He is obviously bad for business and hurting other players. Why are we even having this conversation?

When confronted he gets loud and yells. They don't want to confront him so it is left to other players to try. I've had two run-ins with him. First was he was butting into a conversation, then opened my mini bag and started to pull them out. I told him to knock it off and he walked up and ask what I would do. I told him that I will have the owners call the police on him to be removed from the store. He threw a fit, slammed my mini on the table and stormed out. Then last weekend I got paired up with him and he tried to cheat. I caught him and he threw another fit getting loud, and making holy hell throughout the store.

So if you have a better way of getting rid of a guy from a store that doesn't involve confrontation I am all ears.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chongara wrote:

 Pipboy101 wrote:

Chongara wrote:

 Pipboy101 wrote:
I talked over with the store, we will make the forest 16" long by 6" wide, reduce the number of impassible and deep water markers.

I do want you to understand this guy. When you talk to him about his play he glazes over and still does what he wants. He took a new guy and played him. Destroyed the new guy and then called him stupid plus said that he should just give the minis to him because it is a waste in the new players hands. That guy never came back. He will talk bad about the store but will cheat to win store credit then bitch about how the other stores give more credit.

The store wants him to leave on his own without any confrontation as he flames stores hard core on FB and anywhere someone will listen when confronted. He even filed a BBB complaint on a flgs when confronted. Its sounds crazy but it happened. The guy is a gaming locust.

Right. We're supposed to buy some story about this crazy "Gaming Locust" who is cheating to "Win Store Credit" when he never buys anything, when the only person you've offered any evidence to their cheating is you. As you're here trying to find ways to cheat. I mean seriously "The fat guy broke all our chairs" /eyeroll.

Look if there is someone the community & store don't want around, they can bar him from the property. Just don't expect anyone to pat you on the back or give you the "OK" on your explicit cheating and grossly degenerate 16" forests.

You want hear about him cheating:

1.) He told a new player that you cannot check your command when you want.
2.) Knocks over minis to he can set them up a few millimeters back or forward so they will be in combat or not.
3.) Will move terrain because it interfers with model placement but then uses the moved terrain so he can have LOS or have it blocked.

This is just a few things I have caught him doing over the past two weeks to new players. When called on it and I have he has thrown a fit, stormed out yelling at people that are walking by or trying to come into the store that the store cheats the players. As I said before the store wants to get rid of the guy quietly and have him leave on his own.

Plus the 16" forest gets used all the time because they have that terrain piece so no one in the store cares when it is on the board.

1) You can't. You can only measure Control Range at any time. Command Range is strictly checked during unit's activations leader-to-trooper or if it belongs to some relevant ability that needs to resolve.
2 & 3) These are reasons to bar him from the store, not cheat yourself.

Reconsider your terrain choices. 16" is insane for a forest. Terrain should typically be about 4-7" on any side. I can see going larger on things like hills, or really interactive structures as they tend to affect people equally for the most part. While they're a good starting point, not every game has to strictly follow tournament guidelines. However a 16" forest is absurd as it not only creates a massive advantage in favor of pathfinder & hunter/eyeless sight (lol Ravagores) it also covers a massive portion of the board in 1 terrain type which makes for at best a stagnant play experience even if it isn't skewing the matchup on faction alone.

I meant Command range, sorry. The kid was measuring since his feat gave his jacks pathfinder in his command range.

I'm just a poor soldier so confrontation is kinda my thing.

However if your against it why not just freeze him out and have everyone just refuse to play him and ignore him?

What kind of store is this that adamantly refuses to bar someone who is coming in and regularly destroying their customers property?Don't play there.

Start a private club with your local players and don't invite him. There is seriously no reason to keep going a to place where if someone comes in and smashes your stuff their reaction is "Oh but we don't want to upset him so we're not going to do anything about".

Play in someone's garage or something.

I have to say... why drop to his level trying to exploit terrain setup ?
Just dont let him play or if somone gets set to play him.. dont play the game...

Honestly the store owner needs to do something about it.


Which KC store does he play at ?
Tabletop or the basement ?

Here is my .02

Talk to the people who are in charge of this League. The idea of a Journeyman League is to get people to play, or play different factions. Tell them that this player is a cheater and ruining this league for you and other players. Cite what you have seen him do and how he is essentially a bully. I would also say it wasn't a good idea for allowing Colossals/Gargantuans for an entry level type league.

Get the other players in the store not to play him at all, if he shows up at a League night/tournament, say thank you but no thank you and leave or play someone else.

Talk to the game store, tell them flat out (only if you are really willing to do this) that you will take your business elsewhere. If they cannot see that this person is ruining their business, show them by leaving. it might be hard on your playing, but I would even go as far and talk to the players there and invite them over to your place for games, or have a rotating play location between everybody (i.e. one week go to johns house, next week go to mary's house, etc)

Forgot to answer the original question: Pg 88 Prime, "A warjack in deep water is removed from play", Colossals are warjacks, and I don't see anything about Colossals that precludes a colossal warjack from ignoring deep water. So as soon as the Colossal would enter it, it would be RFP, as others have said.

Have the store owner kick him out for his unsportsman like behavior.

If this is true, it is way beyond teaching him his lesson with the game(which itself violates the spirit of the game)


He's violating page 5, don't teach him about it by yourself violating page 5.

Thank you. We are going have him play experenced and do normal terrain.

I think we're done here.