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http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/02/battle-of-hoth/

Someone has too much time on their hands....

Overall though, the author makes an assumption that Vadar knows more about the Rebel Shield capabilities than he does.

In addition, he fails to realize that the Rebels have no weapons that have proven effective on the At-At except Luke; who is effectively Out of Action once the second At-At is destroyed. Therefore, a pretty sweeping ground victory as the Rebels fail to hold the Imeprial forces long enough for a proper evacuation.

In the final analysis, the end result is accurate; and the battle of Hoth was a fiasco. It achieved none of its objectives. However, the failures tend to fall on the head of the Imperial Fleet, as its Blockade was so feeble after the first Star Destroyer was incapacitated by the Ion Cannon.

Well, and the fact that no Star Wars battle makes any military sense.

The Impeeial assault in Hoth has to be all about Vader trying to capture Luke, or they would have just bombarded it from space surely?

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
The Impeeial assault in Hoth has to be all about Vader trying to capture Luke, or they would have just bombarded it from space surely?

No they weren't able to bombard it from space (which was the original plan). They had to send in the troops to take out the shield generators before they could do that. Of course at that point they've already assaulting the base. Time to take prisoners for information.

I'd argue Hoth worked very well. It drove them from their base of operation, losing much materiale and causing mass casualties in the process. We also don't know how many made it out, only that the heroes did (most of them anyway). For all we know the Imperial blockade could have been reasonably effective.

Well, technically, onc ethe General De Veers At-At destroys the shield generator, no Snow Troopers are on the ground.

I am surprised that TIE and TIE Bombers weren't saturating the Rebels Rally Point? After all the Trasnports and escorts were just sitting on the surface after the shield went down.

Also, we never actually see any Rebel ships get caught int he Blockade, so the casualties are limited to a few grunts and laser-Cannon stations.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
The Impeeial assault in Hoth has to be all about Vader trying to capture Luke, or they would have just bombarded it from space surely?

Prisoners, tech and intel would likely make a ground assault worth it, plus it was a great opportunity to let General Veers off his leash.

i always wondered why they never bombed the Hoth base to ashes. Instead, they reserved their bombers to try and flush Han out of an asteroid swarm, by bombing one asteroid at a time.

Then again, Star Wars is the only sci-fi series I know of with tactics on par with those in 40k.

Its almost like someone just realized that movies usually portray warfare in an idiotic manner.

 CuddlySquig wrote:
i always wondered why they never bombed the Hoth base to ashes. Instead, they reserved their bombers to try and flush Han out of an asteroid swarm, by bombing one asteroid at a time.

Then again, Star Wars is the only sci-fi series I know of with tactics on par with those in 40k.

Well if you already have troops in the base, bombing it is an unwise move (unless you're an IG commander of course...). If they are storming with success (and frankly when has the rebellion won a stand up shoot out?) just keep it going. Get prisoners and data. Its an intel goldmine which is what they really need. This pitiful little base was not a threat to anyone, and definitely was the supply base for the attack ships in the 3rd movie. Now THATS the real rebel base.

Only Vader can’t bombard the base: He’s in it. For reasons that never get explained — and can’t be justified militarily — Vader joins the Stormtrooper assault on the base.

Surely the objective was to capture Luke. The author seems to realize his preeminent value later on in the article:

Nor does that “blockade” trap Luke, who flies to Dagobah without a single Imperial ship harassing him. That’s the worst possible news for the Empire: Luke is about to rekindle the Jedi order that poses the biggest danger to the preservation of everything Vader and Emperor Palpatine have built.

I guess a good argument against Luke being the target and the Empire knowing before Hoth that Like was that big of a threat is that the "what is thy bidding my master" scene comes after the Battle of Hoth.

But as others have commented can scattering the Rebellion -- which we know is already on the run since Yavin -- really be called a fiasco? Plus, as a military power, the Empire is extremely heavy handed. That can be a plus -- hypothetically; in all three movies we never see how (worked well during the Battle of Geonosis, however) and it actually turns out to be quite the minus. Hoth is another example of trying to replace a light bulb using only sledgehammers.

Pah. Rebel propaganda!

Do not be fooled into listening to it or you will be punished.

TBH the thing that bugs me most about Hoth is the whole mess that was the blockade

A) The rebels choose from the literally infinite directions away from Hoth one that takes them directly past the star destroyers

B) The Star Destroyers themselves don't attempt to scramble fighters at all despite the Ion Cannon being one shot and the each rebel ship having just 2 X Wings as an escort, and they were going one ship at a time

 Frazzled wrote:
Get prisoners and data. Its an intel goldmine which is what they really need.

Very, very true. But this excellent point is forgone in the movie; the Empire is not seen to take prisoners on Hoth nor even shown to have collected valuable intelligence on other rebel operations. This would, however, make a very fine branch-off point for a comic book or video game -- or, and I will be stealing your insight for this purpose, an exciting OT-era RPG campaign.

Anyway -- we have to come back to the point that Star Wars is not about military action so analyzing it as military action will just leave us puzzled. Analyze it as story and it makes a lot more sense. Our heroes are all gathered together but not really doing much. Then the Empire intervenes, splitting the heroes up and giving them something to do. Ultimately, this sets up the end of the movie where the heroes suffer grievous losses. So the Battle of Hoth, when viewed in the correct context, is an Imperial victory ... the antagonists have successfully antagonized the protagonists and thereby created story.

The energy shield surrounding the rebel base was strong enough to deflect any bombardment, otherwise the Imperials probably would have bombarded the base.


Also, in terms of weapon systems, an X-Wing would be able to dispatch an AT-AT pretty easily. The problem is the rebels needed all the X-Wings they had to escort the transports.

If we assume that the attack's real goal is to capture Luke and not destroy the Rebellion the thing makes much more sense.

An indiscriminate bombardment could kill Luke, or at least allow him to escape in the confusion.


True, the fleet used does seem small if you are trying to blocade an entire planet, but of course you don't need to do that. The base is at one location on the planet, you only need to cover the area above that. No need to cover the far side of the planet, nothing's over there.

 Grey Templar wrote:
If we assume that the attack's real goal is to capture Luke and not destroy the Rebellion the thing makes much more sense.

Right but as I mentioned, the trouble with that assumption is there is no evidence for it. Vader doesn't know about Luke until after the Battle of Hoth.

 Manchu wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Get prisoners and data. Its an intel goldmine which is what they really need.

Very, very true. But this excellent point is forgone in the movie; the Empire is not seen to take prisoners on Hoth nor even shown to have collected valuable intelligence on other rebel operations. This would, however, make a very fine branch-off point for a comic book or video game -- or, and I will be stealing your insight for this purpose, an exciting OT-era RPG campaign.

Anyway -- we have to come back to the point that Star Wars is not about military action so analyzing it as military action will just leave us puzzled. Analyze it as story and it makes a lot more sense. Our heroes are all gathered together but not really doing much. Then the Empire intervenes, splitting the heroes up and giving them something to do. Ultimately, this sets up the end of the movie where the heroes suffer grievous losses. So the Battle of Hoth, when viewed in the correct context, is an Imperial victory ... the antagonists have successfully antagonized the protagonists and thereby created story.

Manchu has the way of it. All Hail Manchu!

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
TBH the thing that bugs me most about Hoth is the whole mess that was the blockade

A) The rebels choose from the literally infinite directions away from Hoth one that takes them directly past the star destroyers

B) The Star Destroyers themselves don't attempt to scramble fighters at all despite the Ion Cannon being one shot and the each rebel ship having just 2 X Wings as an escort, and they were going one ship at a time

the problem here is that they are star DESTROYERS, not star carriers

Imperial II Class Star Destroyer

72 Tie Fighters.

Meh.

Honestly my favourite point of the Battle of Hoth was the introduction of the Snowtroopers - they looked ace!
Unfortunately, they seemed to have been created for the sole purpose of providing the Mellenium Falcon with some semi-decent target practice!

 Frazzled wrote:
Its an intel goldmine which is what they really need.

Although any sensible rebel commander would destroy all the data. And they had plenty of time to do so.

Hoth seems like the same battle with similar objectives than the battle of Endor. Ground troops to take out a generator, then the big guns.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
TBH the thing that bugs me most about Hoth is the whole mess that was the blockade

A) The rebels choose from the literally infinite directions away from Hoth one that takes them directly past the star destroyers

B) The Star Destroyers themselves don't attempt to scramble fighters at all despite the Ion Cannon being one shot and the each rebel ship having just 2 X Wings as an escort, and they were going one ship at a time

the problem here is that they are star DESTROYERS, not star carriers

Dude. Star Destroyers carry TIE fighters.


The empire should've brought some interdictors as well.

Were Interdictors even developed at the time of Hoth?

I honestly think a fighter screen would have done the job pretty well too.

Obviously, the emperor put down a lot of money buying those AT-AT's and wanted to make sure he was getting his money's worth out of them.

Plus, I think Vader just wanted to kill some people.

 Mr Nobody wrote:
Obviously, the emperor put down a lot of money buying those AT-AT's and wanted to make sure he was getting his money's worth out of them.

Plus, I think Vader just wanted to kill some people.

Vader believes in leading from the front (after he's choked all the commanders, that is).

 Skarwael wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
TBH the thing that bugs me most about Hoth is the whole mess that was the blockade

A) The rebels choose from the literally infinite directions away from Hoth one that takes them directly past the star destroyers

B) The Star Destroyers themselves don't attempt to scramble fighters at all despite the Ion Cannon being one shot and the each rebel ship having just 2 X Wings as an escort, and they were going one ship at a time

the problem here is that they are star DESTROYERS, not star carriers

Dude. Star Destroyers carry TIE fighters.


The empire should've brought some interdictors as well.

Well, Interdictors are a spawn of the EU, and didn't exist at the time of the movies filming so that one actually makes slightly more sense. On the other hand, we see in the first film that Star Destroyers have a hangar bay of fighters on their underside.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Mr Nobody wrote:
Obviously, the emperor put down a lot of money buying those AT-AT's and wanted to make sure he was getting his money's worth out of them.

Plus, I think Vader just wanted to kill some people.

Vader believes in leading from the front (after he's choked all the commanders, that is).

Darth Vader is like a Comissar, standing on top of the AT-AT yelling "bring me closer, I want to hit them with my lightsaber!"

 Skarwael wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
TBH the thing that bugs me most about Hoth is the whole mess that was the blockade

A) The rebels choose from the literally infinite directions away from Hoth one that takes them directly past the star destroyers

B) The Star Destroyers themselves don't attempt to scramble fighters at all despite the Ion Cannon being one shot and the each rebel ship having just 2 X Wings as an escort, and they were going one ship at a time

the problem here is that they are star DESTROYERS, not star carriers

Dude. Star Destroyers carry TIE fighters.


The empire should've brought some interdictors as well.

It was a fairly lame attempt at using actual military designators, and trolling really.....

 d-usa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Mr Nobody wrote:
Obviously, the emperor put down a lot of money buying those AT-AT's and wanted to make sure he was getting his money's worth out of them.

Plus, I think Vader just wanted to kill some people.

Vader believes in leading from the front (after he's choked all the commanders, that is).

Darth Vader is like a Comissar, standing on top of the AT-AT yelling "bring me closer, I want to hit them with my lightsaber!"

BINGO! D has the way of it.

 d-usa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Mr Nobody wrote:
Obviously, the emperor put down a lot of money buying those AT-AT's and wanted to make sure he was getting his money's worth out of them.

Plus, I think Vader just wanted to kill some people.

Vader believes in leading from the front (after he's choked all the commanders, that is).

Darth Vader is like a Comissar, standing on top of the AT-AT yelling "bring me closer, I want to hit them with my lightsaber!"

I give reddit or 4chan roughly 24 hours before somebody there uploads it