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I have been having this argument with a few friends of mine:

Can a Flyer that has Evaded on your opponents turn enter Hover during your own turn? I am arguing against it, because Evade is still in effect, some of the other guys are saying Evade is an simple activation and you just keep the benefits and disadvantages (Jink, Snap Shots only) until the end of your turn.

Relevant rules are on Page 81 of the BRB.

Nope, just as you said.

There was a lengthy thread on this before too, though I haven't looked for it just yet.

Here you go.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/474148.page

I think it has something to do with the fact that if you enter Hover Mode you are no longer Evading because you are now a Skimmer and that breaks the Evade rules.

I just added a poll... why not make this more interesting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kevin949 wrote:
Nope, just as you said.

There was a lengthy thread on this before too, though I haven't looked for it just yet.

Here you go.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/474148.page

I was looking for a thread like that. I didn't see it in the search results.

There is no prohibition on switching to Hover mode if you evaded on your opponent's turn. Of course, you still evaded, so you're still limited to Snap Shots.

 Mannahnin wrote:
There is no prohibition on switching to Hover mode if you evaded on your opponent's turn. Of course, you still evaded, so you're still limited to Snap Shots.

This is where I disagree. The wording says you are evading until the end of your next turn. You can only evade while zooming.

Mohoc wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
There is no prohibition on switching to Hover mode if you evaded on your opponent's turn. Of course, you still evaded, so you're still limited to Snap Shots.

This is where I disagree. The wording says you are evading until the end of your next turn. You can only evade while zooming.

But you suffering the effects of evading from the turn before so imo you will be snap shooting

MarkyMark wrote:

Mohoc wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
There is no prohibition on switching to Hover mode if you evaded on your opponent's turn. Of course, you still evaded, so you're still limited to Snap Shots.

This is where I disagree. The wording says you are evading until the end of your next turn. You can only evade while zooming.

But you suffering the effects of evading from the turn before so imo you will be snap shooting

Except that is specifies that you are Evading, and Jink and Snap Shots are the effects of that.

I declare it, I gain the benefit, I suffer the drawback.

The other thread is interesting, but a lot of that thread hinges on a peculiarity of the StormTalon - its HoverStrike rule is subtly different from Hover. Not necessarily relevant to the more general discussion.

The fact that you must be Zooming to declare Evade does not, in itself, convince me that you must remain Zooming the entire time while Evade is in effect.

@Pyrian

I agree. If you choose to Evade you must snapfire the following turn. It doesn't say you have to stay Zooming.

The issue I see is that Hovering flyers are Fast Skimmers. If they're suffering from the effects of evading, the rule says "An evading flyer has the jink special rule but only fires snap shots."

Fast skimmers can't evade, only flyers can. Flyers in hover are not flyers at that point and thus can't benefit from or suffer from evade, only flyers can.

You must evade until the end of your next turn. To me, it means you can't hover as only flyers can evade and benefit/suffer from it.

No they are still flyers, they just act like skimmers while in hover mode

MarkyMark wrote:
No they are still flyers, they just act like skimmers while in hover mode

If that were true they could skyfire still.

Ironically, the FAQ entry which prevents hovering flyers from Skyfiring also confirms that a Hovering vehicle is still a Flyer.

Pyrian wrote:
Ironically, the FAQ entry which prevents hovering flyers from Skyfiring also confirms that a Hovering vehicle is still a Flyer.

It actually doesn't confirm anything. The rules for hover are what confirm that it goes from flyer to fast skimmer. Fast skimmers do not inherently have skyfire like flyers do. The reason for the FAQ is because there was a large debate that flyers in hover were still flyers and fast skimmers and could still skyfire. Though the FAQ entry is truncated, it is just that - an FAQ and not an errata. Hover states they are (treated as) fast skimmers. The same way that swooping FMC are "treated as" jump MC.

 Kevin949 wrote:
Though the FAQ entry is truncated, it is just that - an FAQ and not an errata.

This seems like you're under the impression that FAQs cannot change rules.
They do. Frequently.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
Though the FAQ entry is truncated, it is just that - an FAQ and not an errata.

This seems like you're under the impression that FAQs cannot change rules.
They do. Frequently.

That's not the point of this thread, but I'll gladly discuss when and where the FAQ section of the updates changes rules in an appropriate section.

I voted yes. The reason why I've debated in the YMDC thread.
My question to the folks that voted no is.
Do you feel an evading flyer switching to hover is an unfair interpretation?

 Insurgency Walker wrote:
I voted yes. The reason why I've debated in the YMDC thread.
My question to the folks that voted no is.
Do you feel an evading flyer switching to hover is an unfair interpretation?

Unfair in that I feel it's against the rules, ya.

 Kevin949 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
No they are still flyers, they just act like skimmers while in hover mode

If that were true they could skyfire still.

Actually you can tell they are flyers from the codex entry, which states that they are flyers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Insurgency Walker wrote:
I voted yes. The reason why I've debated in the YMDC thread.
My question to the folks that voted no is.
Do you feel an evading flyer switching to hover is an unfair interpretation?

Unfair in that I feel it's against the rules, ya.

Do you think it makes sense with how GW in visioned how a flyer with hover would play on the table top?

Yes, the unit is still a flyer but when it is in hover it is a fast skimmer, not a flyer.

Sorry, I don't quite follow what you're getting at with your second question nor do I aspire to be omniscient enough to be able to know what the people at GW were thinking 90% of the time. I simply go by what is written.

Except that it's treated as a fast skimmer, it does not say 'change from type flyer to fast skimmer'. Since you treat it like a skimmer you use those rules like jink and shooting restrictions (no skyfire). Like an evading flyers does as it has jink and has the added restriction of snap firing...but treated as a fast skimmer for being shot at, landing in terrain etc.

Treating as and "being" are near identical terms. I believe the differences you're thinking of the instances of "counting as", such as certain things that cause a unit to "count as" having moved or some such.

Also, it says it's treated "exactly" as a fast skimmer. That's pretty precise. Even still, fast skimmers can not evade and a zooming flyer is "evading" until the end of the next owning players turn.

 Kevin949 wrote:
Yes, the unit is still a flyer but when it is in hover it is a fast skimmer, not a flyer.

That's incoherent.

It's still a flyer. It's not "a flyer that's not a flyer". Nothing in the rules takes Flyer away. Nothing in the rules implies that it goes away. Nothing in the FAQ implies that it goes away - in fact it states outright that it's still a flyer, just like you did. It's a hovering flyer, as opposed to a zooming flyer, and that makes it a hover fast skimmer flyer (plus open-topped and tank if they ever make a hover flyer open-topped tank for some bizarre reason, which they probably won't, but the point is that it's perfectly normal for vehicle types to co-exist).

I would say it's treated exactly as a fast skimmer so you know how a hover flyer moves and how it's shot at, along with the USR and weapon rules.