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Can a Techmarine with 2 Plasma Pistols use the Gunslinger rule to fire both Plasma Pistols and still use the harness to fire the Plasma cutter?

Gunslinger says models get to shoot both pistols. Servo-harness says they can fire one of the harness weapons and one other weapon,etc.

Friend brought this question to me after his game over the weekend and can't come up with any clear answer. I wasn't there but he was fighting against a 4 Techmarine BT list. At this point Im inclined to say they can, if for no other reason that he's spending a huge chunk of points to do it, and he said he paid for a bike on top of it. Could go either way.

Thoughts?

Gunslinger allows you to fire two pistols, not twin-linked just two profiles, giving the exception to fire two weapons instead of one.

The Servo-harness allows you to fire one of it's weapons and one other gun, or both of it's weapons. This is another exception that allows you to fire two weapons instead of one.

The Servo-harness does not allow you to fire one of it's weapons in addition to more than one other gun and in this case Gunslinger still clearly defines that you are firing two pistols, resolved as two separate pistols, so I think it is very clear that Gunslinger and the Servo-harness do not apply together to allow for firing three weapons.

Don't think a Techmarine can take two pistols.

Darkagent wrote:
Don't think a Techmarine can take two pistols.

A C:SM Techmarine certainly cannot. I don't know about other variations though.

I would err on the side that Smashotron went with. Gunslinger is still firing 2 weapons, not just allowing 2 shots. Servo-harness allows you to fire the harness and ONE weapon. Still iffy on it, but I'd have to interpret it as no, you don't get 3 plasma shots with this setup (if it's even a legal setup).

 Smashotron wrote:
Gunslinger allows you to fire two pistols, not twin-linked just two profiles, giving the exception to fire two weapons instead of one.

The Servo-harness allows you to fire one of it's weapons and one other gun, or both of it's weapons. This is another exception that allows you to fire two weapons instead of one.

The Servo-harness does not allow you to fire one of it's weapons in addition to more than one other gun and in this case Gunslinger still clearly defines that you are firing two pistols, resolved as two separate pistols, so I think it is very clear that Gunslinger and the Servo-harness do not apply together to allow for firing three weapons.

I DO agree with you, wanted to get this out of the way, before I present the other reasons allowing it.

This is the counter argument, and comes down to Codex>BRB. One thing I can see on the other side using RAW, is that since both are happening at the same time the controlling player chooses which to do first. Shooting 2 pistols doesn't prevent the servo-harness from firing it's weapon, so he shoots the 2 pistols first. It's a stretch, but one I wouldn't put past people trying to use. Also since a model can only normally fire a single weapon, the interpretation could also be Gunslinger counts as the model firing one weapon. Just another angle on it.

Darkagent wrote:
Don't think a Techmarine can take two pistols.

It might be restricted to Black Templars, as they still have somethings that haven't been brought in line with the other Marine Codex. I think their bike squads can still take 3 Plasma in them, the Techmarine with the 3 plasma pistols is pretty mean.

Even though I don't believe they can, I'd probably still allow it since I feel he's overpaying for what he wants to get out of it, but someone running a Terminator list or high Cost MEQ army wouldn't. Part of the game IMO.

All firing is simultaneous; you have no ability ever to shoot the two pistols "first"

Had to track down a Black Templar Codex and read it, got it sorted out.

Yes, they can have Dual Pistols, but the Servo-harness there is quite exact in that it specifically allows one harness weapon, and one normal weapon.

Last time this came up, it was RAW that you could fire all 3 in YMDC. And yes, this currently a BT only trick. I believe this was because the wording on the Gunslinger. Gun slinger allows you to fire 2 pistols if you have them with no qualifiers and Harness allows a Tech marine to fire a harness weapon and a personal weapon. The reading was that the 2 rules were additive. The Techmarine can fire the Harness and his personal weapon, in this case a pistol. Since it is a pistol and he has 2 of them Gunslinger kicks in allowing him to fire both pistols.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Akar wrote:
Had to track down a Black Templar Codex and read it, got it sorted out.

Yes, they can have Dual Pistols, but the Servo-harness there is quite exact in that it specifically allows one harness weapon, and one normal weapon.

It is "one harness weapon and one of his personal weapons" not just one weapon, so there is nothing there preventing gunslinger from kicking in as gunslinger allows models taht can normally only fire one weapon to fire 2 pistols.

But if you fire the harness and the two pistols, you are not firing "one harness weapon and one of his personal weapons".

Sorry, but shooting two pistols is still shooting more than one weapon. If Gunslinger said "fire as though it were one" or something similar, it would work.

I don't see what is stopping someone as firing the 2 pistols as gunslinger plus the harness. I personally would allow it.

I think the RAW argument is that the harness can be fired in addition to a personal weapon, and gunslinger allows two pistols instead of one personal weapon.

somerandomdude wrote:
But if you fire the harness and the two pistols, you are not firing "one harness weapon and one of his personal weapons".

Sorry, but shooting two pistols is still shooting more than one weapon. If Gunslinger said "fire as though it were one" or something similar, it would work.

This. The harness and Gunslinger are both rules which allow you to fire two weapons. The phrasing does not permit them to be added together to equal three.