Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I didn't see a thread like this, so here goes.

So recently I've been looking at TAGs. In one case, looking at building an Exrah based CA army around a Caskuda, and also looking at grabbing the Marghariba Guard for my Haqqislam.

However, TAG lists are a different kettle of fish to normal lists, and I can see that even in my limited experience with the game. They're a significant portion of your list, in some cases over 1/3 of a 300pt list, as well as eating a lot of SWC. This means the TAG needs to do the heavy lifting, which also means it's going to be on the front line, taking fire.

So, how about we pool some collective knowledge about running TAGs - building around them, using them effectively, defending them, etc. Because I sure do want some advice.

Is it absolutely necessary to run an Engineer? I was planning to anyway, but it's something I've been thinking about. I know the TAG will be taking fire, but are they generally tough enough that they can take some hits, even from the likes of RLs, HRLs and Autocannons?

Following up the Engineer question, is it worth running a Doctor? If so many of your points, and frontline power, is in the TAG, plus with most firepower being aimed at that instead, is it worth taking a Doctor to keep your other models up? I'm assuming yes, as an order starved TAG isn't going to accomplish anything.

When looking at a 300pt list with a TAG, is it normal to fall below 10 models? I keep trying to get my model, thus order, count to 10, but it gets difficult including anything worthwhile when you have a TAG.

Having a MO sectorial, I'm no expert in TAG's, but without an engineer you'd have to be very careful around anything with glue ammo.

I haven't run a TAG ( Bahram got norhing) but I believe you should never go below 10 orders on 300 points. That's the minimum you need at this point level - I regularly clash with forces with 2 combat groups that have ~ 15 orders in total.

THe Engineer helps vs ADHL and can repair your stuff. I think he is indeed worth having in a TAG list.

The Maghriba guard is a peculiar unit as it has a Grenade Launcher, so doesn't need to be at the frontlines to work.

Most of the Factions have access to multiple types of engineers, or at least more than 1 AVA (save Pan-O I believe?) Each one may have a different loadout in terms of the general equipment they carry. (ie. ADHL, D-Charge, random weapons and so on..)

If you want to build around a TAG, I would suggest getting cheap, high WIP engineers if you are going the multiple engineer route.

Another option (and looking at it now, far more tactical) are the G: Servants. At a general glance (as its getting late here), these are cheap cheap and cheap! Although for the most part if I can remember the browsing of the lists, most are in small supply in terms of AVA. 2-4 max for the most part? Anyhoo, toss an engineer with a couple of these things trailing the TAG wherever it goes. They are generally shorter, so easier to get Total Cover with, which in turn could mean higher likelyhood of TAG survival.

Side Thought: Can a TAG be used to provide Cover to the G: Servant if it is completely hidden behind it? Hmmm. Obviously you wouldn't like to get in range of a shotgun, or other template weapon, if you did this, but that could be an interesting play style... Someone correct me if I'm wrong though, please. Lol.

Hopefully that adds to the topic, and doesn't detract. Kinda late and I should get some sleep!
-A


Edit update as I tried to sleep while thinking about a list that could really be called a "TAG centered" list.

Nomads | 16 models
________________________________________________________

Combat Group #1
Gecko Combi (54|1)
Clockmaker Engineer (18|0)
Zondbot (3|0)
Zondbot (3|0)
Daktari Doctor (14|0)
Zondbot (3|0)
Zondbot (3|0)
Salyut EVO (13|0.5)
Alguacil Combi (10|0)
Alguacil Lieutenant (10|1)
Alguacil Combi (10|0)
Alguacil Combi (10|0)
Alguacil Hacker (22|0.5)
Alguacil FO/Repeater (14|0)
Combat Group #2
Gecko Mk12 (55|1.5)
Alguacil Combi (10|0)
Alguacil Paramedic (14|0)
Alguacil Combi (10|0)
Alguacil Combi (10|0)
Alguacil FO/Repeater (14|0)
________________________________________________________

300/300 points | 4.5/6 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/jsH6n


go-go late night army list building! /sleep

Yeah, PanO get that whole AVA1 engineer who isn't even that good (Wip 12). He does have demo charges, though. And a combi rifle.

What PanO DOES have in spades, though, is TAGs. One for every job (and sometimes 2).

With my Yu Jing, I've only tried it it one game, but I like having a Total Reaction HMG Remote tag along wit the TAG. He is the "guard" for the TAG in the ARO. If anyone tries to go for the TAG he's going to need to choose between the Remote and the TAG. Either way he's going to get a face full of HMG!

I've only used the Sphinx once and it was to great effect. Used the TO to get up really close to use the twin HEAVY flamers.

TAG lists are typically rather one dimensional since the player will oftentimes rely just on the TAG for all their heavy lifting. When I build a TAG list I try to make use of cheerleader to counterbalance the point cost then flesh out with medium models to get to 10 orders. Mixing TAG and expensive model will typically leave you order starved or with a skeleton crew.


Nomads | 10 models
________________________________________________________

Szalamandra HMC (90|2)
Clockmaker Engineer (18|0)
Zondbot (3|0)
Zondbot (3|0)
Zondbot (3|0)
Zondbot (3|0)
Interventor Lieutenant (26|0.5)
Zero Minelayer (19|0.5)
Zero Minelayer (19|0.5)
Lunokhod (29|0)
Reaktion Zond (28|1)
Tsyklon (37|1)
Moderator Marker (11|0.5)
Moderator Combi (9|0)
________________________________________________________

298/300 points | 6/6 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/LdRBV

Nice list there, BD!

Just remember, there really isn't a 2+/3++ equivalent in Infinity!

Yes, indeed. But that idea of using the total reacton remote as a tag-along for the TAG (ooooooh, made a funny) is genius. A little bit points intensive, but what wouldn't I give to keep my TAG alive. the Engineer is really meh from what I can see. I'm sure that if I invested in the palbots blister though, it would be finer.

Current list I'm looking at to support my Maghariba.

Ghulam Lt (13/0)
Ghulam Rifle (13/0)
Ghulam Panzerfaust (16/0.5)
Ghulam Hacker (25/0.5)
Ghulam Doctor (17/0)
Najjarun Engineer (17/0)
Nasmat (3/0)
Nasmat (3/0)
Odalisque Spitfire (31/1)
Hassassin Muyib HRL (34/1)
Al Hawwa Sniper (29/0.5)
Maghariba MHMG/HGL (97/1.5)

Gives me an order pool of 10, a Doctor to keep the grunts up, an Engineer to keep the TAG going, two Nasmats for them to Sync with. Also a Hacker to defend the TAG/hack things. A cheap Panzerfaust, Muyib HRL and Odalisque with Spitfire provide the offense with the Maghariba. The spare Ghulam Rifle lets me play shell games with my Lt. The Hawwa can play area denial with her rifle and mines.

My only qualm is the Najjarun model is fething hideous. Might have to use Husam as a proxy.

The centerpiece of my PanO army is my wonderful Jotum. But, I've had problems when going up against Haqq and their terribly annoying Magh. The grenade launcher and spec fire is an atrocious thing to go up against. As well as having the stupid Haqq engineer grab onto the back of the Magh and just ride it around like a mechanized destruction horse.....

Although, my Jotum did some damage to a Haqq force before I ran out of orders and left it sitting in the open......like an idiot.

One thing that's good to remember is the little servebots have a nice movement range, so always keep them in cover or your opponent may target them first.

I concur about the Najjarun. Put some wings on it and it would look perfectly at home on the TV show The Tick.

I'm just wondering what am I supposed to do to keep either troops or TAGs alive with any realistic chances? Once they get shot up, I mean. Von Skyfury is going to get me even better at not getting into trouble in the first place, so that's that.

Shoot em before they shoot you

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I'm just wondering what am I supposed to do to keep either troops or TAGs alive with any realistic chances? Once they get shot up, I mean. Von Skyfury is going to get me even better at not getting into trouble in the first place, so that's that.

Being very mindful of cover and where the Engineer/Medic/Palbots are the TAG does end up taking damage. Personally, I try to figure out where the "anti-TAG' units are as well.

Maybe try running that total reaction bot next to/near the TAG as you're moving it around the board.

Otherwise, as Von Skyfury mentioned, "Get them before they get you."

The thing about the REM is that it's a lot cheaper than the TAG and your opponent needs to chose as to which one to go for.

One thing to remember too. Almost all TAGs come with an HMG and possibly a Heavy Grenade Launcher. You don't need to run them up all the time. Use the long range to your advantage.

 CDK wrote:
The thing about the REM is that it's a lot cheaper than the TAG and your opponent needs to chose as to which one to go for.

One thing to remember too. Almost all TAGs come with an HMG and possibly a Heavy Grenade Launcher. You don't need to run them up all the time. Use the long range to your advantage.

Gotta love the range on the HMG, or the Magnetic Canon. But I've noticed that there are very few TAG options that include the HGL. I know within PanO the only one is the Armored Cav, and Haqq has the Magh. I'm not 100% sure about the others though, as I've not dealt with any of them too much.

Nomads just have one too.

HGL is a rare weapon with factions only having access to 1 per. I hope at some point they phase out the weapon (or change it's rules) as it's not the fact that it's OP, but rather it's OP if your board isn't properly designed with it's existence in mind.

Ran a Gecko for the first time this last weekend. Chibi-TAG is fun times!

I don't have a problem with the HGL. Just gotta make sure the terrain doesn't give it a big advantage.

Though it's still a pain in the arse when you derp during deployment and then have half your force wiped out during your opponents turn.....

Zeta Ockham wrote:
I don't have a problem with the HGL. Just gotta make sure the terrain doesn't give it a big advantage.

Though it's still a pain in the arse when you derp during deployment and then have half your force wiped out during your opponents turn.....

That is the problem, you have to plan your terrain in accordance with it's existence. It's a bit backwards to be forced to make sure you have terrain to balance a single weapon in the game and some new startups have issues with getting Infinity quality terrain in the first place.

 BlueDagger wrote:
HGL is a rare weapon with factions only having access to 1 per. I hope at some point they phase out the weapon (or change it's rules) as it's not the fact that it's OP, but rather it's OP if your board isn't properly designed with it's existence in mind.

Ran a Gecko for the first time this last weekend. Chibi-TAG is fun times!

What are you using to stand in for the Gecko?

http://www.antenocitisworkshop.com/news/komodo-personal-assault-suit/




The pic is the stock model. Converted mine some to feel more Infinity/Nomads. Feels like the perfect size fluff wise. Slightly taller and much more stocky then an HI. I'll eventually remember to take a pic of it and my heavily converted Spec Ops.

Again lost my TAG first turn tonight. To Chain Rifles. Ugh...

Oh, no,no,no... not to chain-rifle, dude, to AP rifle. Mirage-Team Margot's AP rifle. shooting from cover in the back of your unprotected TAG.

Don't be too harsh on the metal big guys... I can't overstate the psycological impact of those brutes on your opponent. we... it works on me anyway...

Yeah, Margot with an AP rifle will cut a TAG apart real fast. Keep at it, you are still in the new player "learning to deploy" phase. You got about 5 more games of "crap what am I doing wrong" left to go. Iron, did you at least give an after action review to him?

Well, we did brainstorm, but as of today, I am still as "noob" as Mathieu at this game. We played 6 games total together, and I think one game each with another player, so we are both still learning.

Basically, the TAG was well hidden, with a building in front, cover on the side, and a engineer beside him. The mirage just needed to drop on the "open" side (I deployed second). then, the way was open, I fired. killed the TAG, Duroc wasted a few fusilliers, and the enginner. There: 5 orders and a TAG down. all in one turn.

We are at the point in learning where we begin to question the game balance: the example above kind of make that point: Seems to be a nice TURN ONE for 75 points with cheerleaders...

Not really a balance issue, it's a 'I deployed poorly and my opponent rambo'd a tough unit and punished me' issue.

Have something watching the TAGs blindspot that can put hurt on Duroc in the reactive turn.

If you managed to do that and take out Duroc with an ARO, you'be be much happier and Ironbovin would have been the sadface.

Monofilament mines are the Ariadnan big-dog's weakness in PanO (their other one is Viral ammo - not anything you can do about that with PanO).
Total immunity helps them a lot against other weapons except those two. Save or DIE.

Heavy flamers also help (multiples) against AD threats. Auxilia with their auxbot buddies. Only VanZant can AD into your backline (they took Ko-Dali's option away) so watch the sides.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Again lost my TAG first turn tonight. To Chain Rifles. Ugh...

I've "lost" my Jotum to a mine before. The mine technically didn't kill the TAG, but it did prevent it from moving anywhere and sadly, it was stuck in the open with no cover. At which point my opponent, who happened to be Chemical, tore into it with his Magh and other troops. I sadfaced all the way home.

As Loki mentioned, deployment is huge when using the TAG, as well as other heavy hitters I'd imagine, and the facing is also important. If you're hiding behind a building, in cover, but the unit is facing the wall, then being in cover isn't going to matter if you can't ARO against the baddie firing at you. I discovered that the hard way.....many times.

 -Loki- wrote:
it's a 'I deployed poorly and my opponent rambo'd a tough unit and punished me' issue.

Great!, now I feel cheap...

But seriously, you are right, we do really stupid mistakes during deployment; like facing walls... I did as much as mathieu, I just happened to have paratroopers to take advantage of this...