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alright so i have looked over this list and gotten some feedback saying they get shot off the table too easily? but i dont see it... my problem is i either have a truly good game and win or it turns into a space elf massacre. it seems to be missing something but i havent yet figured out what so im hoping for some good input.. thanks.

HQ
1 Farseer
Spirit Stones
Runes of Warding and Witnessing
Fortune
Doom

1 Avatar of Khane

Elite
10 Harlequins
8 HK's
1 Fusion Pistol
Shadowseer
HK
Fusion Pistol
Troupe Master
Fusion Pistol
PW - Lance

5 Fire Dragons
Exarch w/ Dragon's Breath Flamer
Crack Shot
TH

5 Fire Dragons
Exarch w/ DBF^
Crack Shot
TH
Wave Serpent
TL SL

Troops
5 Pathfinders

5 Pathfinders

3 GJBs
1 SC

Heavy
3 War Walkers
6 SLs

Aegis Defense Line W/ quad gun

one squad of dragons on the quad gun re roll hits wounds and armour pens ignoring cover.
farseer and avatar roll with the clowns into the fray fortuned rerolling saves til they get to chop something down.
major issue is flamers flamers flamers... i have strong saves most of the other times except when something survives a round of combat with the harlequins.

Your list seems kinda weak in the shooting phase to be honest, I have to agree on getting shot off the field easily, being a fellow Eldar player, t3 with 4+ sv doesn't last long through any kind of sustained fire, guardsmen are your example here

2+ rerollable cv save is nice, but what's their role on this list? Is your army surging forth together or just this one unit? One unit running around the board will either be ignored, speed bumped, or hit with cover ignoring effects without support

Most of your army hangs back in cover, while a few units run at the enemy, I think it needs some role tightening

Thoughs are that:
you have a single unit of close combat goodness. (Can the Avatar join units?)
a single unit of good anti-tank (firedrags in the waveserpent)
and lots of small shooty units.

Apart from the many shooty units you do not have any redundancy in the army; if the harlies get templated to death you have no CC; waveserpent shot down you have no good anti-armour; and so on.

Realistically most armies could ignore the pathfinders unless they are located where it wants to go and one.

I would try something else in the wave serpent, maybe banshees or scorpions; lose some HKisses and a few other bits and bobs to make it a big unit. Then fiddle armound to get some more ranged anti-tank in your back line - pathfinders firing the gun and make room for more walkers or a wraithlord. Personally I would drop the avatar.

Just as said above, your army lacks a main functionning scheme. Eldars are not about getting the right units, they are all about "how to get them to work together".

In your army list, you have way too many different functionning styles, even if the units you picked are good.

In a game, your army is gonna split into two different, non-complementing groups:
a) Front assault wave: Harlequins + FD in WS, Avatar and Seer. GJB on the side.
b) Rear Fire support group: 2nd FD squad, manning the ADL Quad, group of WW and Pathfinders.

A wise enemy would simply stay for away from most of your backfire support, long enough to blast the incomming wave (he'll be fighting 50% of your army with 100% of his) then move forward to your backlines and clean the other 50%.

You should try to give a unique scheme to your army. Either you move towards your enemy, protecting your CC units with resilient ones, and unleashing a short-range & close-combat destruction wave
or
you stand back with heavy firepower, forcing your enemy to try to move to you, while you shoot the hell on their faces.

But both at the same time is kinda hard (if not impossible) to achieve for Eldars, imho

I will second the whole idea that while part of your list advances, the rest kinda sits there.

That said, infiltrating pathfinders and then using their scout move should get them into decent forward position War walkers can provide mobile S6 spam.
The single serpent screams "Hey, point your AT weapons here!" And considering your rushing up fire dragons, it will be a prime target if your opponent wants to protect a manticore, land raider, or other high priority heavy support.

Without fortune, the avatar won't survive. He is just eating fire to let the clowns rush up. You would be better taking a wraithlord to walk with the clowns. For the same points, you can get an EML/Lance lord.

The clowns are a bit bulky. The troupe master and fusion pistols are overkill(You have Ld10 from the seer). The exarch on the quad makes sense, but the dragons in a serpent work just fine with 5 normal dudes.

With eldar, things have to work together. Sending out single units to do single roles only works when you get the first shot and roll well. If that does not happen, you said it yourself, "space elf massacre"

Well, you first need to max out HS when you write an Eldar list. I'd start with 2x3 Warwalkers and either one Wraithlord (but you already have an Avatar) or a Fire Prism with underslung shuricannon.

Build a footdar army to overwhelm an enemy iwith superior firepower or build a mechdar army to outmanuever an enemy with superior mobility... Your current army is trying to do both.

Foot: Harlies, Pathfinders, ADL, Avatar.Fppt Dragpns

Mech: FireDragonin Serpent, EJB

Base: 3 War Walkers, Doom/Fortune seer.

Pick on or the other and go with it.

Alright thank you for all the input I am looking into a different build to try and get some kind of symmetry here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jasper wrote:

you have a single unit of close combat goodness. (Can the Avatar join units?)

I have asked several players around my local shop and some don't think so and others think you can because he is a character model.

I kinda like the list it has a bit of every thing.

 wisedeatheater wrote:
I kinda like the list it has a bit of every thing.

lol I like it too.. unfortunately if you look up at lets say Dr.Serling's post i feel like massacre is the best word for what happens if all does not go well for the elves and their rolls or placement.

zeus89 wrote:
Alright thank you for all the input I am looking into a different build to try and get some kind of symmetry here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jasper wrote:

you have a single unit of close combat goodness. (Can the Avatar join units?)

I have asked several players around my local shop and some don't think so and others think you can because he is a character model.

I was under the impression that there are characters and independant characters. The former, such as a demon prince, can not join units, whilst the latter can. Or I am I reading too much into a misprint in the Chaos Codex!

alright i was looking and in my older codices it will say special rules independent character... but the only thing i don't know is if the 6th rule book changes things because of the character tag (ch) that is also near some monstrous creatures.

The Avatar is a character yet not an independent character and therefore cannot join units.

Avatar is a cool model but not as good in an eldar army. Hes too vulnerable and is normally not supported. Walking acorss the board when the rest of the army is fast is just hard.

Are you into using forgeworld stuff? In my local environment is totally accepted including tournament play.

If you can I totally reccomend a Warp Hunter.

Really solid AP 2 Barage which eldar lacks.

Glad to see that, Icelord. Here as well sanctioned Forgeworld models are accepted at all levels, including tournaments! I run 3 Warp Hunters in all my lists up to 1850 and they have yet to fail me! I find the Avatar works well only in foot-dar lists of 1500 or less.

Unfortunately of all the players in my area only a very small few have or use FW models and units so i haven't looked into them.

Agree that the list needs more direction..foot can be fine...mech can be fine...but you can't mix them. If you try you do neither particularly well.

I'd drop the Avatar, the foor fire drasgons and one of the pathfinder units. Thta should net you around 300 points. Pick up another Farseer and use the extra points for more war walkers.

Also, try and find points for more units of GJB. They are really great.

Good luck with your eldar. I am not playing them now but they were my first army and I will always love them.

ender502

thanks ender... I'm trying a few different list builds. i try to play test each one a few times to see what is working well and what doesn't fit. everyone keeps saying to drop the foot dragons but they seem to be some of my strongest pieces in every game. With the exarch using crackshot and TH he mans the quad gun re rolls to hits, to wounds and armour pen, ignoring cover.

3 Elites and 1 Heavy Weapon - kind of weak.

Harlequins are good but they are too costly for the benefit of 10 of them.

Fire Dragon + Wave Serpent. A little too costly for killing one heavy tank. Sure it pays off if your opponent fields a Monolith or Land Raider but otherwise it is too weak.

Pathfinders - while very good are a lot of points for limited staying power.

So assuming you want stay on foot, you need to maximizie your firepower... Lose the Serpent Dragons, Harlies and downgrade your pathfinders to rangers and you should have about 500 poiints to repurpose.

Maybe 1 or 2 guardians with platforms and perhaps some D-cannons or vibrocannons to boost your defenses. Another thought maybe a minimum swooping hawk or a lone autarch with wings and fusion gun to handle the anti-tank.
Otherwise my recommendation is to max out your heavy slots rather than your elites.