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I feel mean posting this, you know, on the off chance some of you may be over the A:CM debacle. Here's what could have been:

http://www.unseen64.net/2013/02/19/cancelled-aliens-crucible-new-videos/

http://vimeo.com/56606365

I can't really see the Alien setting as good for an RPG. Maybe as hybrid survival horror/FPS - RPG, but not a pure RPG. I just don't see lots of room for quality character development in terms of leveling and an increase power/capabilities.

Edit: And the bit where the xenomorph was just standing there taking hit was really lame.

Wow. Just wow. That's actually... kind of cool.

The narrative characteristics of the xenomorph don't rule out a RPG. Xenomorphs are like zombies. They aren't antagonists so much as environmental obstacles. And like zombies, they are ultimately more bark than bite. Humans are much more dangerous than either xenomorphs or predators. The real bad guys are characters like Ash and Burke. Greed, fear, sympathy -- it takes human emotions and motivations before the xenomorph becomes an overwhelming threat. We have seen this franchise played out as a shooter over and over when what it really needs is richer story telling. That's why I think the RPG model (although perhaps not so clearly KotOR-inspired as in this project) is actually the best way forward.

 Amaya wrote:
And the bit where the xenomorph was just standing there taking hit was really lame.

There was another shot with one just hovering in the air. You know this game was never finished right? It's kind of silly to judge bugs in a draft.

 Manchu wrote:
And like zombies, they are ultimately more bark than bite. Humans are much more dangerous than either xenomorphs or predators. The real bad guys are characters like Ash and Burke. Greed, fear, sympathy -- it takes human emotions and motivations before the xenomorph becomes an overwhelming threat.

I have to completely disagree with this part.

Not the Ash/Burke part, the statement that Humans are far more deadly than predators. Not worth debating though, I just want to say I disagree

I don't think we're talking about the same xenomorphs. The xenomorphs I know of are apex predators that are significantly more of a threat than any zombie. A well armed and trained human or predator is probably superior to them due to superior firepower and tactics/strategy, but if a xenomorph gets within striking distance of either it will probably kill its target.

I do understand what you're driving at though concerning the narrative, I just don't think it would be as enjoyable as a survival horror game featuring xenomorphs.

 Amaya wrote:
I can't really see the Alien setting as good for an RPG. Maybe as hybrid survival horror/FPS - RPG, but not a pure RPG. I just don't see lots of room for quality character development in terms of leveling and an increase power/capabilities.

Edit: And the bit where the xenomorph was just standing there taking hit was really lame.

Ya it doesnt really feel right. Aliens NEEDS to be a FPS. Its that threat that you are in the guys view, can only see what he sees, knowing the alien could be anyone that makes the Alien universe good. Being anything but first person would hurt the game in my eyes.

Not to say a game with minor RPG elements like choosing dialog wouldnt be awesome. I got pissed as hell in Colonial Marines when O'Neil wanted to abandon that Marine because the death of his EX and threw a fit when he found out the Captain only let them go on the mission to save that said marine

 Galdos wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
And like zombies, they are ultimately more bark than bite. Humans are much more dangerous than either xenomorphs or predators. The real bad guys are characters like Ash and Burke. Greed, fear, sympathy -- it takes human emotions and motivations before the xenomorph becomes an overwhelming threat.

I have to completely disagree with this part.

Not the Ash/Burke part, the statement that Humans are far more deadly than predators. Not worth debating though, I just want to say I disagree

He's right though. There are numerous examples in the films of a single human doing significantly more damage than any of the xenomorphs despite being at a tactical disadvantage.

If Predator and its sequels are part of the canon than you have examples of humans defeating Predators (the race that hunts xenomorphs for fun) on even footing. Predators and Xenomorphs are physically superior, but humans are smarter (and have plot armor).

@Glados: I don't mean on a one-for-one basis. I mean, so far as we know, the predator species does not arrange itself into a military. When it comes to just flat out genocide, that's something that humans not only can do but have willfully done (unlike the xenomorph, which kind of must wipe other things out but also ends its own ability to reproduce by doing so).

This idea is expressed really well in the early AvP comics/novels. The predator ritual for becoming an adult involves killing a xenomorph. They call the xenomorph "hard meat" and humans are called "soft meat." Even "blooded" adutls are not allowed to hunt "soft meat" until they are much more experienced. In the first AvP comic/novel, the Young Bloods are taken to a hunting world to kill xenomorphs. When they arrive, the Elders find a human settlement and prepare to leave. But right away, a human accidentally destroys their ship and kills or disables the Elders. Left to their own devices, the Young Bloods start hunting the "soft meat." At first, they can't understand why their culture teaches that humans are so dangerous. I guess they forgot that a single human destroyed their ship and killed all but one of the Elders mere hours after planetfall ... Anyway, as you might expect, the Young Bloods start to figure it out.

 Amaya wrote:
I just don't think it would be as enjoyable as a survival horror game featuring xenomorphs.

I'd be just as excited to play a "real" survival/horror AvP game (as opposed to the usual flashlight-lit shooter) as an AvP RPG if it was extremely well written. That's kind of a problem, for the reasons you already brought up. A relatively fit, combat trained civilian could believably stand up to a single bug, a la the first movie. If a studio could do this without simply rewriting Alien, I'd be super excited.

But if you're going to deal with swarms of 'em ... well, that's when you need a team of characters who do more than get picked off one by one. Frankly, I think Aliens is a more enjoyable film than Alien. I'd rather see this franchise develop along the lines of Aliens than Alien/Prometheus -- and it has, but just as shooters so far. And we've has some massive fun with it. But now I think it's time to get away from the pure-action style and bring in the strong story that makes Aliens such an awesome film. That's where a RPG-style party would come in.

Colonial Marines supposed to be RPG too when it was early in development. The game should have been basically like this: in co-op one is constantly holding motion tracker, one is carrying smart gun, one is shotgunner an the last one is pulse rifler.

If you were however playing alone it was planned to be like Republic Commando. You are leader of your team of four and you issue commands to your squad mates to go to cover, to shoot, to shut that door, to advance, to retreat...

We were trolled epically for this game... let's just hope that the next one ( the one in development by creative assembly ) will be much better than the last 2.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Colonial Marines supposed to be RPG too when it was early in development. The game should have been basically like this: in co-op one is constantly holding motion tracker, one is carrying smart gun, one is shotgunner an the last one is pulse rifler.

If you were however playing alone it was planned to be like Republic Commando. You are leader of your team of four and you issue commands to your squad mates to go to cover, to shoot, to shut that door, to advance, to retreat...

We were trolled epically for this game... let's just hope that the next one ( the one in development by creative assembly ) will be much better than the last 2.

That's not really an RPG playstyle, thats a class based shooter mindset.

RPG would mean we would be leveling up and whatnot, which I would want to stay as far away from an Aliens game as possible. Seeing "RANK UP! ATTACHMENT UNLOCKED" is one of the most atmospheric ruining things ever, and I hated it in the latest game.

The ideal game for me would either be...

A.) A Left 4 Dead styled cooperative based game. One where you have the advantage as long as you stick together, but the moment you venture off on your own, you're dead (aka the way aliens should be) The versus modes in Colonial Marines basically played like a demo for how this game should be. It's extremely fun when you have people with microphones and skilled xenos players hunting you. Make a game built around that, where maybe one guy is in charge of your smartgun, another guy has the welding torch, the third is your close combat guy with a shotgun, and the 4th guy runs the motion tracker, and it could be awesome. Or at the very least, the equipment is laying around at the start of the mission and you can choose who gets to be who. Multiplayer has to be this. Really, it's the only thing Colonial Marines did a fairly decent job at, and it would be a ton of fun if the community was better. You really need to stick with the squad or you will get MURDERED.

B.) Survival Horror FPS mixed with Republic Commando. Small squad that you have to stick with or die the moment you split up. Can issue orders and can actually rely on these guys to pull their weight. Individual xenos are extremely strong and fast, and require a quick trigger finger to survive as they can only take a few hits from high powered weaponry(unlike the bullet sponges on legs xenomorphs can be in this game) Xenos should have to use their speed, stealth, and numbers to overwhelm Marines. Segments where you're forced to split up should be terrifying, as you constantly have to watch your back, edge away from vents, watch the ceiling, etc. Basically, anytime your squadmates leave your line of sight, you should be expecting to die. If you're standing in a good position where the aliens bottleneck into an area, you'll be fine, but when visibility is poor, you have limited room to engage (with friendly fire always on) and have limited ammo, they'll be far more scary. Also, making it where the aliens could grab you from vents/grates/holes in the ceiling would be awesome.

So basically A is multiplayer and B is single player. I think a straight up horror game where you play as a civilian in an xenomorph infested enviornment would also make for a really cool game. Xenomorphs need to be scary. These are the things that hunt you, not the other way around. You should be fearing an attack every second, constantly scanning the enviornment hoping you spot them first. Your reaction to a swarm shouldn't be "Man, holding down this trigger is really boring"

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Make a game built around that, where maybe one guy is in charge of your smartgun, another guy has the welding torch, the third is your close combat guy with a shotgun, and the 4th guy runs the motion tracker, and it could be awesome. Or at the very least, the equipment is laying around at the start of the mission and you can choose who gets to be who. Multiplayer has to be this. Really, it's the only thing Colonial Marines did a fairly decent job at, and it would be a ton of fun if the community was better. You really need to stick with the squad or you will get MURDERED.

You basically just described Alien Swarm, only it wasn't 1st person.

Alien Swarm... that fething game man.

I wish it was still popular

Have to agree with Manchu; an Aliens RPG would have been interesting - probably even more interesting than a "rehash" of yet another FPS. The setting has potential, so much that it could easily serve to accomodate a wide range of game genres.

I have a feeling this one is shot down because of how A:CM is being ripped apart. Shame.

On the other hand, apparently it would've only been a console title anyways. Boo.

FWIW, Obsidian's game has been officially toast since 2009. It wasn't the catastrophe of A:CM that killed it. I really hope that Obdsidian chose to release this footage now to see if there are any bites on the idea that this franchise can host more than yet another shooter. I hope it's not just a kind of "told you so."

Obsidian's a pretty half-ass developer anyway. Regardless of the status of that property, I'd have a really hard time getting excited about anything they were developing - all the NWN games they worked on were riddled with game breaking bugs that nearly a year after release to get ironed out, and there were similar issues with Dungeon Siege 3 (which had the additional problem of just being a poor game with bad mechanics). The only property they did well on was New Vegas, and that was because they were able to stand on the shoulders of Bethesda, who had already done all the heavy lifting.

KotOR 2 > KotOR imo, despite the bugs, but I agree that NWN2 was mediocre. All of their games are even more bug ridden than Bethesda's work. I don't expect much out of Obsidian in all honesty.

 Ouze wrote:
The only property they did well on was New Vegas, and that was because they were able to stand on the shoulders of Bethesda, who had already done all the heavy lifting.

This sentence pretty much defines Obsidion's existence.