Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I was hanging out with a couple warpals, discussing tactics and the like, when we got on to the topic of the meta changing from vehicles to infantry. While that's not exactly breaking news, I realized that this has also resulted in a lot less S8+ weapons in armies. As far as I know, the only thing keeping many Tyranid units, such as the Warrior and Ravener, was the ready supply of weapons that could ID them, e.g. Anti-tank guns. So my question for the Dakka community is: has the decrease in the amount of S8+ been great enough to justify running Warriors and the like again? It occured to me that I have not tried using any mid-sized 'Nids since 6th dropped. I'm drafting a few lists up that will be hitting the vassal tonight to test my theory.

I would say that there is still a lot of strength 8. But with the rise of power weapons instead of TH and PF. In shooting plasma over melta. Mid tyranids could be successful. They lack an invulnerable like necron wraiths, so they will definitely need cover. Raveners are beasts which make them extremely effective cover users. Warriors can be a large fire block for shooting tyranids that score an objective, all good things.

In my opinion raveners never stopped being a threat, low initiative crons vs weight of attacks and high initiative. That is a great way to sweep a unit and prevent RPs. Also failing synapse gives them rage! They take up a fast attack which isn't contested like the elite slot. an over looked unit IMO

Hunchkrot wrote:
So I was hanging out with a couple warpals, discussing tactics and the like, when we got on to the topic of the meta changing from vehicles to infantry. While that's not exactly breaking news, I realized that this has also resulted in a lot less S8+ weapons in armies. As far as I know, the only thing keeping many Tyranid units, such as the Warrior and Ravener, was the ready supply of weapons that could ID them, e.g. Anti-tank guns. So my question for the Dakka community is: has the decrease in the amount of S8+ been great enough to justify running Warriors and the like again? It occured to me that I have not tried using any mid-sized 'Nids since 6th dropped. I'm drafting a few lists up that will be hitting the vassal tonight to test my theory.

The problem is warriors are BS3, and extremely expensive and ineffective compared to similar troops choices (Tervigons for objectives, Hive Guard for shooting)

Insta-death is still a big problem for them. Basically, psychic choir nids is the strongest build atm, everything else is just weaksauce.

I personally love warriors if i owned a Tyranid army i would have at least 1 squad maxed out. Throw up the veneom thrope screen and run every thing at them. Target saturation if they are shooting warriors with a 5++ they arent killing ur flyrant or your big bugs. If they dont kill them and the warriors get to assault ... game over.

But there isnt a lack of str 8 weapons at all ... in my SoB/IG list i walk around with 4 Rockets + 3 Las cannons + 2~3 Exorcists+ ~2 vendettas depending on the size of the game. I only include the Vendettas over 1500 and use 3 Exorcists at 1500.

I think it is safer to take them now more than 5th edition, but they are still very fragile for such an expensive unit and their are safer/better options.

Warriors are nice and can be made very powerful with the addition of a prime. I think of them as kind of an Ork Nob equivalent (not identical but fit within the same realm of use). But unlike Nobs, their is no way to safely move warriors across the map. A spore pod is an option but you can't have a prime with the unit and it means 1 turn of them standing around like fools to be destroyed. A Tervigon taking biomancy powers is a much more resilient and effective troop choice.

Shrikes suffer the same problem as warriors. They are faster but are more expensive and are even more fragile. When regular bolters can bypass their armor saves, it isn't a great option at Terminator prices.

Raveners are the best option of the three if you have something to support them or screen for them. Running from cover to cover is the safest option but you can still lose a lot of points per round of shooting. They are great in CC but a Trygon is a safer option.

Now this does depend on your local meta if plasma spam is all the rage or if people are still utilizing a lot of S8+ weapons. But overall they aren't the most reliable option.

Alright, thanks for the input guys. Just went and threw this list together-what do you guys think? I'm hoping that I can get around that turn of standing around after a DS with target saturation and Cover saves in this one. The rippers and ADL is probably a mistake, but after thinking it up I feel inclined to give it a try. Between ADL and my Tyrant, My reserves come in on a 2+ rerollable. Admittedly not my best list, but I want to give a no doom, no tervigon list a go.

270-Hq-Hive Tyrant-170
-Devourers-15
-Hive commander-25
-wings-60
245-Hq-Hive Tyrant-170
-Devourers-15
-wings-60
210-Troops-4 Warriors-120
-Deathspitters-20
-Toxin Sacs-20
-Spore/CS-50
210-Troops-4 Warriors-120
-Deathspitters-20
-Toxin Sacs-20
-Spore/CS-50
230-Troops-4 Warriors-120
-Boneswords-40
-Toxin Sacs-20
-Spore/CS-50
230-Troops-4 Warriors-120
-Boneswords-40
-Toxin Sacs-20
-Spore/CS-50
40-Troops-4 Ripper Swarms-40
30-Troops-3 Ripper Swarms-30
Fast-4 Raveners-120
-Rending Claws-20
105-Elites-Venomthrope-55
-Spore/CS-50
170-Elites-Zoanthrope-60
-Spore/CS-50
170-Elites-Zoanthrope-60
-Spore/CS-50
70-Fortification-ADL/Comms Relay-70


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Tyrants have one set of dev's and their Lash Whip & Bonesword just to keep with the theme of trying new things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yuck. That list was not the best I've ever made.

Not bad actually, a nice break from Tervispam.

Although dedicated cc armies will wreck you in close combat, however...

I've played 'Nids in one form or another since third edition. I have always found shooty warriors to be an extremely effective unit. Dropping high strength blasts on units of pretty much any infantry is very effective. Then again, I have always found more success with volume of fire vs. AP. I hope the rumors about Warriors being immune to ID turn out to be true, I always ran them alongside Zoanthropes when Synapse protected versus ID and it was really strong.

We just need to wait for the new codex.....

The problem with midzilla is that even a couple of high strength weapons is really devastating, especially blast weapons. A single strength 8+ large blast can wipe entire squads of Warriors plus anyone that happens to be standing next them, and Leman Russes are getting very popular. Every time I see a list with an allied contingent that looks like: {1 CCS with Master of Ordinance, some cheap troops, Vendetta, LRBT squadron} my dreams of fielding midzilla dies a little more.

This question also ties in with the basic consept of tyranid timing. Your units needs to hit the "on" switch on the same turn otherwice your oponent will kill some of them turn 1, some turn 2 and some turn 3. The premium you pay for their speed usualy means that they will come as piece meals. Warriors for my play style are a bit slow. Mind you if their dakka has gotten better this could help.

Instead of looking to the warriors, I would look to the ravaners, my favoret, or the shrike who I have not had the pleasire of trying.