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2013/02/23 10:46:21
Subject: DAK Army - Looking at list building M/L
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Hallowed Canoness
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So I finally am starting my new project after pestering a bunch of people with questions. I've decided to run with a German army for the midwar and to go with a "Afrika Korps" style. However since this is a war game in a historical setting instead of a historical game, I want to pick up some add ons like PSC's Panther box set to give myself a viable and extremely theoretical "late war" Afrika Korps. If that's even possible. It's late... err early as all hell and I'm not sure that's even possible with careful building and construction. Am I completely off base? The books really aren't helping me here... I think might be misreading in a few places. Looking at the North Africa book, I could go later model Pz IVs with a support company of Tigers and that would potentially translate....
I also admit I have units in mind purely based on my own "these would be fun to paint and/or shoot at things with" such as 88s and Stug IIIs. How insane am I? and is it even possible to accomplish this goal without dropping a small fortune?
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I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ |
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2013/02/23 11:17:55
Subject: DAK Army - Looking at list building M/L
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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There are no late war DAK lists (LW starts in 1944 and the DAK was defeated in 1943).
If you really wanted to do this you will need to use a standard LW list and paint them yellow.
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The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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2013/02/23 17:03:28
Subject: DAK Army - Looking at list building M/L
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Hallowed Canoness
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Right, I know DAK didn't exist past mid-war, but is there LW lists that use DAK vehicles is what I'm asking. From what I'm seeing from other sources that's looking like a no.
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I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ |
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2013/02/23 17:42:48
Subject: DAK Army - Looking at list building M/L
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1st Lieutenant
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Well it depends which vehicles you're thinking of using?have you looked at Cassino/dogs and devils as that's where a lot of Dak ended up
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2013/02/23 17:48:56
Subject: DAK Army - Looking at list building M/L
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Hallowed Canoness
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No I've been mostly looking at the North Africa book.
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I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ |
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2013/02/23 17:54:09
Subject: DAK Army - Looking at list building M/L
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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Late model StuGs and Pz IVs see a lot of use in late war. As will SP arty, AA and recce. Its basically PZ IIs and Pz IIIs as well as early model Pz IVs that aren't used (mostly) in late war.
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The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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2013/02/23 18:58:00
Subject: DAK Army - Looking at list building M/L
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Bounding Assault Marine
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I think most stuff will translate backwardsly to MW but not the other way round. DAK uses, I think, panzer 3s and panzer 4s that you can uprate to have the same gun as they use late war.
A quick list off the top of my head as to stuff that translates back from LW to mid-
Panzer 4's w/long 75mm
Marder 3's
Tigers
Most (?) halftracks
HMG's and suchlike are basically interchangable...
Stugs (in very small amounts)
That's all for now.
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2013/02/23 23:30:44
Subject: DAK Army - Looking at list building M/L
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
New Zealand
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DAK had the earlier Panzer IVG which you don't really see in LW at all. Can always just use them as mark H and nobody will really notice, it's just desert paint scheme in late war doesn't really work well. Also DAK models tend to be wearing shortsleeves/field caps and most latewar forces will be in European theatre uniforms.
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2013/02/26 02:41:29
Subject: DAK Army - Looking at list building M/L
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[DCM]
The Main Man
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FoW is a historical wargame. I'm not sure what a wargame in a historical setting would be called, other than a historical wargame.  Calling FOW a historical wargame rather than a historical simulation is probably a more accurate description (and most historical wargames are games, there aren't that many out there that would really qualify as simulations that a lot of people actually play).
As far as the DAK goes, the equipment is mostly early war and mid war only. There were some Panzer IV Gs in Italy and I've heard that a few of them supposedly survived into what would be the LW period. Most likely nobody would notice the difference at 15mm. Panzer III Ns and Tigers would of course also work for Italy.
A lot of DAK units that were evacuated ended up in Italy, so you could look to LW Italian-theater lists as a guide, but there's no guarantee that the equipment would be original DAK stuff. The DAK didn't have any StuGs outside of a handful of StuG Ds (I think they literally only had two) that were destroyed well before the DAK left North Africa.
Most MW artillery and AT should be good to go in Italy, the DAK had 105s and PaK38s, although they would have had the older 105s without the muzzle brake. The DAK used a decent bit of captured stuff too, like British 25 pdrs. Not sure if this would have continued in Italy or not.
21. Panzer, one of the original DAK divisions was reconstituted and fought in Normandy LW, but they had a lot of special equipment that you don't see much of in other units, if at all.
Not sure if that really answered your questions, but it's going to be tricky to make a DAK force that will be viable in LW, not to mention that your uniforms and color schemes will for the most part be inaccurate in the LW period.
Doing a MW/LW Italy list would be a lot easier than doing a MW DAK/LW Italy list.
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2013/02/26 04:36:32
Subject: DAK Army - Looking at list building M/L
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Hallowed Canoness
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Yeah that's how it's sounding, I'm leaning towards doing something else just for simplicity.
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I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ |
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2013/02/26 11:37:05
Subject: Re:DAK Army - Looking at list building M/L
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Regular Dakkanaut
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When I first saw this title I misread it and thought it said "DAD's army - looking at list building"!!!
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2013/02/26 13:11:05
Subject: Re:DAK Army - Looking at list building M/L
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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Vanders wrote:When I first saw this title I misread it and thought it said "DAD's army - looking at list building"!!!
I'm sure I saw a semi official Dad's Army army list on the BF site years ago.
The actual army list seems to have vanished into the aether but I did find this http://www.flamesofwar.com/default.aspx?tabid=107&art_id=345
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The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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2013/02/26 16:14:54
Subject: DAK Army - Looking at list building M/L
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Beaver Dam, WI
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This is just a suggestion: Go with DAK Aufklarungs or Panzer Grenadier.
DAK can take a hoard of PaK38 as well as 88s.
Admittedly not tank heavy but this will leave you with a liveable force for mid-war and while PaK38 may be hard pressed against heavies, still they can be good against medium tanks as well as cheap.
PzGren Co: (mot)
HQ 45
3 x PGren Co 205 (615)
1 x MG Plat 140
1xAT Co: (PaK38) 115
1xAT Plat: (PaK36r) 200 (I believe this is a DAK option.)
Hvy AA Plat: 225
This gives you 1340 for a core so you have the ability to modify it to late war or mid-war quite easily. Artillery, Tigers, Marders, Pz IV or Pz III..
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2000
2000
WIP
3000
8000