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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/23 14:03:39
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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Canoptek Wraiths.
Great unit, pretty damn killy, with some nifty war gear options to go along with them to make the unit even better... well, most of the war gear is nifty.
One piece in particular has most 'Cron players scratching their head.
The Transdimentional Beamer.
Why is this thing available to Wraiths?
It's a Heavy 1 weapon, they are fast jump infantry.
How are they supposed to use it?
At first I thought maybe they could deep strike in and cause a bunch of surprise strength tests that could potentially get around inv saves as an alternative method to remove troublesome models... but then I realized, because it's classed as "heavy", if they deep strike onto the table, that counts as moving, so they wouldn't be able to even fire.
You could move them up and do it, but then they wouldn't be able to assault (something they would more likely perform better at).
So it leaves me wondering: why would they give Wraiths this weapon?
Did they just arbitrarily stick it on them, or was there some hitherto overlooked way of using it/them that no one has managed to figure out yet?
(has anyone even tried running Wraiths with TDs before that might be able to shed some light?)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/24 05:28:20
Subject: Re:[Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Deranged Necron Destroyer
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So that there would be a nice, useless plastic bit that was perfect for Cryptek Staff Conversions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/24 06:32:51
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet
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In 5th you might consider taking one for wound allocation shenanigans, but otherwise... I dunno.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/24 17:54:54
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
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I think Matt Ward included it in there for the sole purpose to say, "Look, they have usesless items, so they can't be that OP"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/24 18:13:41
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
The best State-Texas
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Every codex has it's duds.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/24 20:02:18
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Near Golden Daemon Caliber
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Sounds like dark lances on de scourge. Even worse though as wraiths are actually useful in cc.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/24 20:52:29
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Student Curious About Xenos
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of the 4 models I killed in all of 5th edition with the beamer, I killed a space marine sarge with power fist, baliel, asreal, and swarm lord. It is a fun weapon that I love to use. Never effective, but I still use it.
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"Of course you fight fire with fire. You fight everything with fire." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/24 23:28:58
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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The sad thing is, the weapon itself seems like it has potential... just not on a Wraith.
(if this was a Destroyer/Tomb Blade upgrade, on the other hand...)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/25 22:30:40
Subject: Re:[Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Crushing Clawed Fiend
Eau Claire, WI
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I would have to look at their stats and rules, but are they relentless or something of equal value, so you can move and shoot with the unit?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/26 00:07:07
Subject: Re:[Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot
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I dont know why they have access to that wargear, but if you were looking at getting some use out of it, consider a nearby Phaeron in a ghost ark. He moves up and hops out, attaching to the wraiths flying forward. Thye become relentless, and can take the shot, after that your descision to "creep" forward to keep relentless, or jump them forwar leaving the phearon behind.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/26 01:35:29
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Irked Necron Immortal
Boston, Massachusetts
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In Apoc, it can technically remove Titans from the game. I'd say that has some merit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/26 01:55:59
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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The Hive Mind
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It's just a Heavy weapon, right?
So you can move and snap shot it (if you not want to charge for whatever reason). Removing a random model in a target unit is very powerful. No armor, invul, or EW can save it.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/26 03:28:05
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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rigeld2 wrote:It's just a Heavy weapon, right?
So you can move and snap shot it (if you not want to charge for whatever reason). Removing a random model in a target unit is very powerful. No armor, invul, or EW can save it.
^^This, they can snap shot after moving/deep striking. Not that justifies the 15 points a pop for them.
Here is the only build that I've come up with that makes them slightly interesting:
Obyron
Trazyn
6 Wraiths 6xTrans Beamers.
Trazyn makes the Trans Beamers relentless, not too mention making the unit scoring. Oby allows the unit to DS (as Trazyn couldn't do it without Oby). You could drop Oby and pick them up in a Night Scythe, but then you're not deploying them again until at the earliest turn 3.
It's just over 600 points, but you have a pretty fair shot of making anything with a S characteristic disappear, not too mention the fact that the unit is extremely deadly in CC as well. And, you can always split everyone off from each other the turn after you DS in, just something to keep in mind.
It's fun though, and against some armies I would even say it's very effective. Problem is, against others, like say IG, you're spending a bunch of points on Transbeamers that aren't going to do much.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/26 07:54:42
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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It's times like this I curse the fact there is no such thing as a Destroyer Overlord...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/26 08:01:14
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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skoffs wrote:It's times like this I curse the fact there is no such thing as a Destroyer Overlord...
Yeah, I'm willing to bet Phaeron was an option early for Dlords during testing but got scrapped because that would have been a little too good. DLord+Wraiths is already pretty sick, if they were touting Insta Death Ray Guns as well it could be a little broken.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/26 10:12:27
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Phaeron upgrade says hi. Just as useful.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/26 10:12:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/26 10:43:54
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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That's not very accurate. If you're running the Overlord on foot with Warriors Phaeron is a more important upgrade then Warscythe and maybe even MSS, both of which people tend to auto take. Phaeron turns a brick of Warriors into a nightmare at the 12" band.
Also, though less utilized, Trazyn giving Phaeron to some Deathmarks is at least a bit interesting. Or, you know, this very thread, where its the only way to make Trans Beamers even semi useful.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/26 13:54:19
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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I'm intrigued by the possibility of this being an actual thing.
What do you think, guys? Can we figure out a formula to make one of the (seemingly) most pointless weapons in the codex into a potential option worth considering?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/26 17:24:24
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Numberless Necron Warrior
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Possible uses I could see with them would be:
Deep strike a full squad and snap shot 6 beamers at a squad. The wraiths with their 3++ should survive, and if they survive and are assaulted snapshot them again! Hopefully killing something cool.
Put them with an overlord with 2+ 3++ and pharon, walk them up the board. Which I think is not the worst idea because this allows your wraiths to keep pace with the rest of the army so they don't bum rush up and get wiped. The overlord can save most of the shots at them and then look out sir to provide some wound allocation.
Statistically 4 of 6 shots will hit and on a MEQ unit 1-2 will die. On terminators this is pretty good , and since its random allocation you might get a juicier target than what is out front.
Competive at all? No what so ever. Enough necron shenanigans to make you buddy rage? Yes indeed.
With challenges in 6th, I'm starting to think that the tesserect labyrinth is not that bad. It prevents your lord or overlord from getting stuck against specialty war gear I see. IE brother corbo 2+ feel no pain or the 2+ invulnerable staff of grey knights.
There are a lot of characteristic tests necrons can put on to the battlefield which may deserve a second look.
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Opinions are like donkey-caves, everyone has them and they all stink.
Necrons 7000+
Space Wolves 2500
Mechanicum: 3000
Space Marines: 3000 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/26 18:17:18
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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I think I prefer the sudden-appearance usage better, but snap shotting them seems like a waste.
Being the case, either attaching a Phaeron & Veil-tek/Obyron or beaming them down via Nightscythe seem like better options.
(though I should probably check to make sure, seeing as how I don't usually have to worry about heavy weapons normally, but if they disembark from a Nightscythe that hadn't moved too far, they could fire the Transdimensional Beamer that turn without penalty, right?)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/26 18:18:32
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/26 20:48:10
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Freaky Flayed One
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Would they be useful to take out trygons and such? If you hit with 3 or 4 trhey are bound to roll the failing 6.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/27 05:48:44
Subject: Re:[Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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(though I should probably check to make sure, seeing as how I don't usually have to worry about heavy weapons normally, but if they disembark from a Nightscythe that hadn't moved too far, they could fire the Transdimensional Beamer that turn without penalty, right?)
That's a good question:
“Invasion Beams: A unit that begins its Movement phase
embarked upon a Night Scythe can disembark before or after
the vehicle has moved (including pivoting on the spot, etc) so
long as the vehicle has not moved more than 36". If the Night
Scythe moves more than 24" in the same turn, the
disembarking unit can only fire Snap Shots.”
Seems like the distance moved doesn't effect them either way. Either they are Phaeroned, and won't fire snap shots at all, or they are not Phaeroned, and will fire snap shots regardless of how far the NS moved.
Hey, speaking of which, I just found another application of Phaeron. You could Phaeron a Stormtek/Warrior squad, and that would allow you to move 36" and fire your Haywire at full affect. Hmmmmm...
Would they be useful to take out trygons and such? If you hit with 3 or 4 trhey are bound to roll the failing 6.
MCs, Dreads, and Terms are probably the optimal target for the Trans Beamer, as they offer the highest payback for a success.
You'll take out about .667 S5+ targets/turn with a full volley of 6 Trans Beamers, so you have a fairly reasonable chance of eating a Trygon or Dread on the drop.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/27 05:50:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/27 08:28:42
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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So let's see:
Overlord (Phaeron) - 110 points
Despair-tek (Veil) - 60
6 Wraiths (T.Beamers) - 300
= 470 points at minimum
Can replace Overlord with Trazyn to make scoring.
Can replace Veil-tek with Nightscythe (for precision insertion) or Obyron (for extra protection in CC)
I guess the only other issue I would have is, with 6 random targets, if the same model gets singled out more than once, it's going to be a massive waste (unit of ten guys gets hit with six shots. three of those shots are randomly assigned to one guy. if he fails on the first test, the send and third shots are wasted).
Oh well, them's the breaks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/27 09:30:28
Subject: Re:[Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Can't use the Veil-tek unfortunately, as Royal Court cannot be attached to Wraiths. Good summary of the options otherwise.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/27 14:33:17
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Numberless Necron Warrior
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If you left the royal court attached to the overlord they can join wraiths because he is an IC. Wraiths cannot start the game in a night scythe so earliest that option would go off is turn 3.
In my next game I'm going to try the deep strike combo to see how effective it is.
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Opinions are like donkey-caves, everyone has them and they all stink.
Necrons 7000+
Space Wolves 2500
Mechanicum: 3000
Space Marines: 3000 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/27 14:56:11
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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You cannot do that. The royal court becomes a unit of it's own, which the IC (overlord) may join.
They may jump into a Night Scythe (but cannot take them as a dedicated transport), but two units may not occupy the same transport at the same time. pg 78 core rulebook.
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"What we do in life, echoes in eternity" - Maximus Meridius
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/27 15:16:47
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Numberless Necron Warrior
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Touché.
Guess I should have read my codex better. Well then I'm back to walking them up the field.
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Opinions are like donkey-caves, everyone has them and they all stink.
Necrons 7000+
Space Wolves 2500
Mechanicum: 3000
Space Marines: 3000 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/28 04:22:04
Subject: [Necron] Transdimentional Beamer... what's the point?
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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So you either spend a fortune to attach Obyron and a Phaeron to get them into place early, or go cheaper routes and get there later...
Well, that pretty much settles it, then.
Final verdict: nonviable.
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