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I agree with some of your points, like laughing as your 10 man terminator squad sits on your objective all game, but disagree with tournament play being a mockery of the game itself. It's just too expensive not to number crunch and make a broken web list. I'm saying this from experience. My first lists were space marine I like these units lists. Guess how often I won, never. Once I dropped some serious cash on six chimeras, 50-60 death korps of krieg infantry and about 6 special weapons packs, 3 vendettas, 2 manticore a and a few russes I finally started winning some games.

Now the new mega list is the necron flying circus. And I see no problem with it. It's the first true mech army of 6th edition.

 Exergy wrote:

 Ministry wrote:
I think someone was just asleep at the wheel thinking the S6 Blacksword missles were "anti-air". Those things can't penetrate anything AV12 so someone probably castrated the stats at some point before print.

If they nerf bat the AV12 flyers there would be more problems. As it is, DA players are a small minority so releasing new expensive flyers with craptastic stats doesnt have much impact as a lot of people dont get how bad these things really are.

So really, half the AV12 flyers are problems with the IG codex. The stormtalon and helturkey are supposed to be heavily armored flyers. Complaining that str6 doesnt hurt them is like complaining that your AT Krak Missile has trouble touching Land Raiders. Helturkey's and Storm Ravens cost nearly as much as a Landraider too.

Str6 is great against FMC, and the AV10 flyers. It is still pretty good against the AV11 flyers. It is not a misprint, it is a problem with Vendettas and Valkaries.

Heldrakes only cost 170 points. LR's cost at least 230.

Alright who has shenanigans to share?

So far my favorite is 6 command squads in one force org
2 Command Squads (HQ selections)
2 Ravenwing Command Squads (2 Techmarines on bikes)
2 RW/DW Command Squads (2 HQ selections on bike or in termie armor)

The base command squad disallows Techmarines, but the other two say HQ selection on bike/in termie and nothing says 1 command squad per choice

Now that I have gotten a few games in with Deathwing Terminator Squads.

Deathwing Command Squad: This one I have found useful as an anchor, mostly as a Deathwing Company Banner Carrier. I will have to experiment with the other Banners. It is also a “Bullet Magnet” (see Deathwing Knights). With the Apothecary that FNP Save really helps them allot.

Deathwing Knights as Bullitt Magnets: I love them, both their Role and the Models. Right now what they do best is Draw Fire, Lots of fire. I dropped 5 of them with Belial in the back yard of a MEQ emplacement and over Half the Army fired on them and this included a lot of Plasma. I just with I could give them a Banner.

Deathwing Terminators as Tactical Terminators: Now I am running in these games with a 10 man with 2 Plasma Cannons. I have also have ran a 10 man Deathwing Terminator Squad with twin Cyclones. I have been finding them highly resilient at holding objectives [until I start rolling tons of 1’s].

What kind of kills do you get with a Plasma Cannon on a Termie Squad? Does that compare favorably to other heavy weapons, in particular the Cyclone or Assault Cannon?

Thanks.

Also, how did you obtain them - two DW Command boxes or did you buy bits from suppliers or trade bits?

Well I've played against them now and I have to say I like them.

Nothing too overpowered, but lots of fight and there are some very crafty combos available.

Deathwing Knights kinda pooped the bed. Maybe it was how they were played, but my TL Dev Flyrant blasted 3 of them in shooting and then in assault they didn't get to swing back.

The T5 seems good, until you realize that so much of the real shooting and CC out there is S6-9, it's not like marines were dying in droves to heavy bolter fire before.

I'm finding my opponents are making a lot of assumptions about how the codex works, without actually reading the entries...

For example, in a Ravenwing AttackSquadron, the Attack Bike is always a separate unit, not just the land speeder.

Additionally, I've seen all sorts of travesties with equipping Deathwing Command Squads. For example, Banners on Deathwing Apothecaries and Champions.

People thinking the apothecaries give feel no pain within 6 inches like blood angels.

People getting Deathwing Assault just wrong. - All Deathwing Assaulters must arrive on the same turn.

People getting the Blade of Caliban (a slightly worse power axe) mixed up with the Deathwing Champions Halberd of Caliban (a very killy deadly thing of killiness).

 TedNugent wrote:
What kind of kills do you get with a Plasma Cannon on a Termie Squad?

Were they did well was during the 1st turn of a Night Fight. They were able to hit well forcing Cover Saves vs. MC’s. Then they did well vs. the large number of Bugs that were attacking my position. They combined with the Storm Bolters butchered the Gargoyles and one of the Giant Nids, that I cant remember the name of. I might of better if it was not for the ing mother stupidDoM ing er.
The other real list I faced was a Ravenwing/Greenwing list. They laid waist to the Tactical Marines and also do a number on the Bikes.

Does that compare favorably to other heavy weapons, in particular the Cyclone or Assault Cannon?

Very different is the only way to put it.
>My Cyclones keeps being put in the position to use their Krak Missiles so I am not sure if the Plasma Cannons are better yet, I think I will need to face something like Guard or Orks to see.
>I think the Assault Cannons are better in the 24” or less situations and as light Anti-Armor.

Also, how did you obtain them - two DW Command boxes or did you buy bits from suppliers or trade bits?

To be honest I have only got one. I am hoping to get a second through the Swap Shop. Right now I am Proxy him with a second one with a 1 armed Terminator. If I have not got one by next month I will just get a second Deathwing Box.

Well they perform as expected vs. MEQs; they have done well vs. the couple of MC's I have encountered. I think they will as well as a Cyclone in Shooty Armies, but Assault Cannons will be a Better Choice for a Deathwing Assault.

 TedNugent wrote:

PS, I don't like the generic IC's in this dex. Except for the Librarian. Awesome points cost, good statline for what he is, and he gets a free Force Weapon and a Hood. Too legit, only problem is, I don't want to put him in a ranged tac squad, such a waste of WS5 and a Force weapon :(

I like him in Terminator armor, especially with the Combi-plasma and Force Weapon, and then add Prescience and a unit of shorty terms. DW assault and fire, then charge and take advantage of the Force Weapons, with rerolls along the way. And at a decent cost.

I finally got a game in with dark angels tonight, it was a good experience. This was for the togit tourney this Sat, so I was trying azzy in my guard blob with raven wing bike support per Natavati's suggestion.

List was Azrael, lvl 2 Libby on bike with Auspex, black knight command with standard of devastation and grenade launcher, 2x 3 bike squads with double melta and attached mm attack bike, 2x 5 man Bolter scouts, ig company command squad with melta and astropath in chimera, Marbo, platoon command with flamers in chimera, vendetta, manticore, and 50 ig with 5 axes.

My opponent was necrons with nemesor and 4 flyers with troops, playing with 3 objectives. I used my bikes to attempt to alpha strike, as with read grenades I could lower the t6 on the spiders to 5 and id them with the manticore. I learned that 1) putting my command bikes so close is a good way to lose them and 2) I need to prescience the manticore or rad grenade if I am planning on such a tactic. Instead the rad grenade scattered off and the manticore shot was saved. In response, he tied my support troop bikes up with scarabs and killed my command bikes with the spyders I failed to kill.

After that, it was just a matter of him killing my 1 vendetta and quad gun with his 4 flyers making me unable to down his flyers until they dropped guys off on turn 5 to steal the objectives.

In the end, Azrael did great giving the blob an invuln, but I lost my bike Libby to my own force weapon with mind shackles because in a challenge he can only hit himself apparently. Losing the Libby cost me greatly with the lack of prescience and an ap2 axe on my opponents 2 destroyer Lords.

As for the warlord power, I am finding it harder and harder to not always use the extra d6 for leadership. I failed a mind shackle check I would have passed with the leadership boost, and failed a bring it down order with the company command to twin link its 4 melta weapons on a flyer. Instead I took furious charge for the blob which isn't bad but with mind shackle around its not what I needed.

I also learned that I need to go second a lot more instead of looking for the bike alpha strike. The bikes are fine in outflank reserve, I don't need them and the banner on turn 1 when my opponent has all their important units in reserve. The anni barges only have a 4++ blob to shoot at if I keep the bikes off and guard vehicles back. Plus it gives my vendettas a chance to fly on and kill a flyer instead of the other way around.

Before I change the list I want to get some more games with it, as my first game was not a good indication. I am still spoiled from my ig with 2 rune priest list that could jaws necrons with abandon while using 3 vendettas to counter flyers. While that list was good, the guarenteed 4++ I believe will prove to be better once I get some more games in.