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Xenomancers wrote: You don't think Hamas gets it's hands on the money going to the PA?
Israel collects all the big ticket taxes for the PA. Payroll, all business related, property, etc. I'm sure that if you have any indication that they're financing Hamas they'll be thrilled to know.
Now, if you mean that some public servant that happens to be a Hamas member gets paid through the Israeli tax service, then that's probably true. Will they skim off the top of many things going to Gaza? of course they will. But that's peanuts on the grand scheme of things.
Actually the recent Hamas approach to Fatah (leading to a sort-of truce between them) is basically because Hamas was running dry after the Qatari tap closed.
Oh, and on the issue of human shields, some reading.
www.btselem.org/human_shields
Hamas is essentially the mob that is also the government. Fairly easy for them to extort money from everyone - and they do it. You'd be ignorant to think they don't do it. This isn't the kind of stuff they talk about on CNN.
I read your article - pretty slim stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/21 18:48:42
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Frazzled wrote: Hamas also murders anyone who disagrees so there's that.
That is actually another reason why Hamas is so popular.
If you stop supporting Hamas, then they will take away your house (which may very well have been paid for by Hamas in the first place), you will have to pay ridiculous prices to get food (which usually is supplied by Hamas), you will have trouble getting a school or a hospital for your kids (those are usually run by Hamas), and last but not least their thugs will be beating you and your family up, intimidate your friends in abandoning you, prevent you from getting work anywhere and generally do their best to make your life miserable. And if you openly resist them they will just kill you.
With the choice being between a life with cheap or free food, housing and healthcare or a life of suffering, beatings and being ostracised from society, it is not difficult to see why Hamas is popular. They win a lot of support by charity, and what they can't win by charity they win through intimidation.
Hamas basically is a political party, terrorist organisation, criminal syndicate and shadow government all in one, covered with an extremist religious sauce.
They are a really really bad bunch. But I don't think they are entirely unreasonable. They have moderate elements as well, that could be open to negotiation.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/21 18:35:37
Xenomancers wrote: You don't think Hamas gets it's hands on the money going to the PA?
Israel collects all the big ticket taxes for the PA. Payroll, all business related, property, etc. I'm sure that if you have any indication that they're financing Hamas they'll be thrilled to know.
Now, if you mean that some public servant that happens to be a Hamas member gets paid through the Israeli tax service, then that's probably true. Will they skim off the top of many things going to Gaza? of course they will. But that's peanuts on the grand scheme of things.
Actually the recent Hamas approach to Fatah (leading to a sort-of truce between them) is basically because Hamas was running dry after the Qatari tap closed.
Oh, and on the issue of human shields, some reading.
www.btselem.org/human_shields
Hamas is essentially the mob that is also the government. Fairly easy for them to extort money from everyone - and they do it. You'd be ignorant to think they don't do it. This isn't the kind of stuff they talk about on CNN.
They're the government on a destitute part of the Palestinian territories.
Barely enough to keep the lights on (something that's quite a challenge in Gaza)
Yeah but somehow they buy everyone's house and feed everyone. Where is the money coming from?
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Ketara wrote: At the same time I am keenly aware however, that moral judgements on the internet a continent away detached from all context are extremely easy. And that had I been in Israel since 2000 enduring the kind of tit for tat casualties and hatred, having endured hundreds of collective hours sitting in a shelter and waiting for an all clear; I would likely have a very different and far more laissez-faire perspective on the whole thing. Because that's morality for you; generally subjective based on our own experiences and perceptions.
Yes, okay, you would support genocide if you had to go through the meagre reprisals that the afflicted group could muster. That's... good to know. Thank you.
As a sidenote, Hamas doesn't only get support because people view them as the only way to fight back against Israel. The militant wing is just one part of Hamas. They also do a lot of charity and provide basic social services to poor people in Gaza (which in Gaza is pretty much everyone, thanks to Israel). That is also what gets them a lot of goodwill with the people of Gaza.
As usual, the public services provided by Hamas are part of their recruitment strategy and how they grew up to challenge Fatah. By controlling the schools, they gained access to a new generation to spread their propaganda. History classes in Palestenian territory are notorious for its propaganda. It's filled with inaccuracies and downright lies to cement the idea that Palestenian are virtuous people and Israeli monsters and that the only sollution is fight and martyrdom. Compared to the history lessons of Israeli and Arab public school, they are atrocious. Their history lesons are even more biased than that of Israel religious schools which are notorious for its lies and propaganda. They can also enforce islamic and nationalist values in the population to better control and motivate them. By controlling the hospitals they favor access to the families of their fighters and supporters. This leads a lot of people into their arms to simply save and provide for their families. One most not forget that Palestenians are also fighting against each other a lot. The conflict between Fatah and Hamas have harmed the population a lot and each of thiese groups are supported by a cloud of smaller organisation which have more in common to mobster gangs than political parties. Security within the palestenian territory is extremely tenuous even without Israel in the picture.
Ironically, Israel current leadership needs an ennemy like Hamas and by extansion Iran. The ultra-orthodox community is shrinking within Israel and its privileges are questionned more and more. Secular Judaism is on the rise within the country. Netanyahu and his cronies, who rely on an alliance with those ultra-orthodox, are also in trouble due to corruption and their popularity falling quickly. All this warmongering from the Israel government during the events in Gaza and the Syrian Civil War is theatrics to win the upcomming election by scarring the population in the arms of its current leader. If they lose those elections, they could face prison and loss of privileges.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/21 19:21:18
Ketara wrote: At the same time I am keenly aware however, that moral judgements on the internet a continent away detached from all context are extremely easy. And that had I been in Israel since 2000 enduring the kind of tit for tat casualties and hatred, having endured hundreds of collective hours sitting in a shelter and waiting for an all clear; I would likely have a very different and far more laissez-faire perspective on the whole thing. Because that's morality for you; generally subjective based on our own experiences and perceptions.
Yes, okay, you would support genocide if you had to go through the meagre reprisals that the afflicted group could muster. That's... good to know. Thank you.
I'm shocked to hear that you support running over the entire Israeli population with a large combine harvester. Shocked I say!
...you know, writing really inaccurate misleading representations of other people's statements can be surprisingly good fun. I can see why you do it.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/05/21 19:55:19
Ketara wrote: At the same time I am keenly aware however, that moral judgements on the internet a continent away detached from all context are extremely easy. And that had I been in Israel since 2000 enduring the kind of tit for tat casualties and hatred, having endured hundreds of collective hours sitting in a shelter and waiting for an all clear; I would likely have a very different and far more laissez-faire perspective on the whole thing. Because that's morality for you; generally subjective based on our own experiences and perceptions.
Yes, okay, you would support genocide if you had to go through the meagre reprisals that the afflicted group could muster. That's... good to know. Thank you.
I'm shocked to hear that you support running over the entire Israeli population with a large combine harvester. Shocked I say!
...you know, writing really inaccurate misleading representations of other people's statements can be surprisingly good fun. I can see why you do it.
Saying that you would hold different beliefs in different circumstances is not super useful, particularly when it comes to Israel's campaign of genocide. It's just dropping chaff everywhere.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Its disingenuous to characterise the threat that Hamas and other Palestinian terror groups pose to Israel as "meagre".
It's actually fully accurate. Hamas does not have the capability to be more than a nuisance. It has no serious armed forces. Home-made rockets are not terribly effective weapons. Of course, should they decide to take up suicide bombing again there would likely be a higher body count but they quit with that because of what the rest of the world thought.
Hamas is, objectively speaking, not able to put up sufficient military might to contend with Israeli armed forces.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/21 19:26:14
Xenomancers wrote: Yeah but somehow they buy everyone's house and feed everyone. Where is the money coming from?
Told you before. A few years back it was mostly Muslim Brotherhood and Qatar, now those two main sponsors are gone it's all down to the third: Iran and whatever oil sheikh they can get a few hundred million from. That's doesn't qualify at international aid as you put it before.
Still on the grand scheme of things: barely enough to keep the lights on as it were.
Saying that you would hold different beliefs in different circumstances is not super useful, particularly when it comes to Israel's campaign of genocide.
And.....making provocative misleading representations of other people's words is? You think that that leads to productive, friendly conversations?
It's just dropping chaff everywhere.
Errr...you might think you're on some super secret New World Order Forum, where what we say all has meaningful impacts upon the course of human affairs worldwide, but I'm afraid this is a chat thread in the OT of a toy soldiers forum. I'm using empathetic reasoning to mull over why what might appear to be clear cut obvious moral situations in my shoes, could be regarded with less concern in the relevant part of the world. Completely on topic.
Unless by calling it 'chaff', you mean I'm drawing attention away from discussing How Bad Israel Is? You're outraged you had to scroll past a whole paragraph of someone considering what it is that might make a segment of the Israeli population less worried about the moral aspect than they are? Because it distracts from the super serious business of filling up page 19 with declarations of how bad shooting people is?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/21 19:55:49
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Xenomancers wrote: Yeah but somehow they buy everyone's house and feed everyone. Where is the money coming from?
From the same sources almost every Sunni terrorist group gets its money. That is from so-called US allies like Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other Gulf states. Not officially from their governments of course, but from wealthy oil sheiks, salafi and wahhabi mosques and other private persons and institutions. I am sure they also get money through a lot of other sources (such as Iran, and their Hezbollah buddies to the north), but donations is undoubtedly a big source of income for them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/21 21:29:45
Can someone explain to me why Hamas is allowed to exist by the western powers? I'm not a big fan of intervention - I think this is a problem we should let Israel take care of themselves. However, If any government deserved to be removed from power and considering how easy it would be - it has to be Hamas.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: Can someone explain to me why Hamas is allowed to exist by the western powers? I'm not a big fan of intervention - I think this is a problem we should let Israel take care of themselves. However, If any government deserved to be removed from power and considering how easy it would be - it has to be Hamas.
We've seen how well that concept worked in Iraq...Afghanistan...in Syria...
More to the point, they're a bit player harming almost nobody but their own people in practical terms. What damage they do to the Israeli's is (on a nation state level and increasingly in practical terms) is superficial at best.
For whom would it be worth it to get involved in bloody urban guerilla warfare to root out Hamas? And would what inevitably arises from its ashes be any better? Recent history generally shows that as soon as one group is knocked out, another even more brutal one arises. Already happened with the PLO, once Fatah was crippled, Hamas arose in its wake.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
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Xenomancers wrote: Can someone explain to me why Hamas is allowed to exist by the western powers? I'm not a big fan of intervention - I think this is a problem we should let Israel take care of themselves. However, If any government deserved to be removed from power and considering how easy it would be - it has to be Hamas.
This is what happened last time America tried that;
Oh, and they did appeal it, calling it unfair of the courts to prohibit them from using children as human shields. Despite court rulings, they were doing it as recent as March of this year.
Xenomancers wrote: Can someone explain to me why Hamas is allowed to exist by the western powers? I'm not a big fan of intervention - I think this is a problem we should let Israel take care of themselves. However, If any government deserved to be removed from power and considering how easy it would be - it has to be Hamas.
Because every time that anyone has tried to end it, Israel has killed the replacements. Efforts by Fatah to eliminate Hamas has been crushed hard by Israel and the United States. You do grasp that THEY PUT HAMAS THERE because Fatah had given up on terrorism and they were not happy with that.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/22 01:29:31
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
Xenomancers wrote: Can someone explain to me why Hamas is allowed to exist by the western powers?
I don't know. Why is Al-Qaeda still around? Mexican Drug Cartels? The Mob?
Turns out that eliminating non-state actors is a monumentally hard task. Moreso when said actor proclaims itself to be a political authority. Even after losing an election Hamas is still around because it turns out Hamas has more guns and Fatah can win all the votes it wants but when you live in a bombed out shell of isolated living space guns matter more than votes in a lot of ways.
Xenomancers wrote: Can someone explain to me why Hamas is allowed to exist by the western powers? I'm not a big fan of intervention - I think this is a problem we should let Israel take care of themselves. However, If any government deserved to be removed from power and considering how easy it would be - it has to be Hamas.
There is a number of reasons Western powers or Israel itself have not yet destroyed Hamas. -Such a war would involve loads of urban guerrilla fighting and thus result in lots of casualties for the attacker as well as all the innocents caught in the crossfire. Given the fact that Hamas is not really capable of seriously threatening one, the costs of a war to remove them are seen as too high. -Hamas enjoys a lot of sympathy and support in Middle Eastern nations. Attacking Hamas in an all-out war would have repercussions far beyond Gaza. It would set the entire Middle East aflame and turn most muslim nations against the attacker. Facing Hamas almost certainly would mean also having to face Hezbollah, and probably a shadow war with Iran, making the conflict a lot more costly. Additionally, Arab nations like Egypt and Saudi Arabia are also highly unlikely to remain quiet. Nobody wants that. -The amount of civilian casualties an attacker would undoubtedly cause would result in a total media disaster and international backlash. Even beyond the Middle East, the attacker would likely become a pariah. Again, not something Israel or any Western power wants. -Hamas, is a shady terrorist/criminal organisation that would be incredibly hard if not virtually impossible to root out. Hamas has had to deal with its leaders and members being assassinated by the Mossad for decades and has become very good at adapting to deal with that. They are an extremely decentralised and flexible organisation. It is a classic head of the hydra story. For every Hamas member and leader you kill, two more take their place. The only way to totally destroy Hamas and remove them from power would be to destroy their roots: their support among the people of Gaza. If you don't take out those roots, the organisation will just regrow. And guess what: a violent intervention would do anything but destroy Hamas' popular support. Quite the contrary.. -And even if you would succeed in removing Hamas, what then? Who will take their place? Nobody has a plan for that, and unless you can come up with a plan for 'what happens next', removing Hamas would be a very bad idea. And obviously, if coming up with a 'after Hamas' plan was simple, it would already have been done.
So yeah, plenty of reasons why Hamas is allowed to exist. Removing them would be a lot harder than you seem to think it is, despite Hamas' military weakness compared to Israel and Western powers.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/22 01:44:49
Xenomancers wrote: Can someone explain to me why Hamas is allowed to exist by the western powers? I'm not a big fan of intervention - I think this is a problem we should let Israel take care of themselves. However, If any government deserved to be removed from power and considering how easy it would be - it has to be Hamas.
Hamas existing is key in the Israeli strategy of "they're all terrorists so they don't deserve better than this".
Simple as that. A secular, strong Palestinian government would need compromises of the kind the current Israeli leadership is not willing to take. Read: settlements, infrastructure, security.... etc.
-Hamas, is a shady terrorist/criminal organisation that would be incredibly hard if not virtually impossible to root out.
The only people who can root out Hamas is the Palestinians themselves. Fatah (secular) and Hamas (islamist) have been in a state of conflict from the very beginning, and only grudgingly work together. They routinely attack each other and they've been at a state of quasi civil war for over a decade now.
Prop up Fatah, give them the law enforcement tools to work against Hamas and the half a dozen or so smaller fundamentalist players in the area, but above all give them the tools to fill the social vacuum they will leave. The same vacuum the occupied when the PLO and Israel failed to provide for the people in Gaza.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 06:39:30
Xenomancers wrote: Can someone explain to me why Hamas is allowed to exist by the western powers? I'm not a big fan of intervention - I think this is a problem we should let Israel take care of themselves. However, If any government deserved to be removed from power and considering how easy it would be - it has to be Hamas.
This is what happened last time America tried that;
What is this image?
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: Can someone explain to me why Hamas is allowed to exist by the western powers? I'm not a big fan of intervention - I think this is a problem we should let Israel take care of themselves. However, If any government deserved to be removed from power and considering how easy it would be - it has to be Hamas.
This is what happened last time America tried that;
What is this image?
The name of the image tells me it is the Beirut barracks bombing in the 1980's. Don't really see how it is relevant here, since it is highly unlikely Hamas could pull something like that off. The Beirut bombing was conducted either by Hezbollah or the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, both of those organisations are vastly more dangerous and capable than Hamas is.
It wasn't carried out by either of those but by Amal or Islamic Jihad who were both bit players in that stage of the civil war.
The story behind it is that the United States arrived in Beirut as part of the Multi National Force (MNF) also comprising of Britain France and Italy. They were their to stabilize the situation and oversee the removal of the PLO as part of the Israeli disengagement. They instead became embroiled in the Civil War and assisted the Israeli occupation forces (even going so far to use one of their battleships to fire upon Muslim groups). As they were supposed to be intervening to bring peace their shift in stance let to them becoming a recognised combatant.
Despite Iron Captains' assertion the attack on the marine barracks was carried out by a simple truck bomb, pretty crude but devastating. It killed over 240 American as well as Sixty French. Its relevance here is because that the sort of thing that had happens when you try to intervene in the Middle East.
ingtaer wrote: It wasn't carried out by either of those but by Amal or Islamic Jihad who were both bit players in that stage of the civil war. The story behind it is that the United States arrived in Beirut as part of the Multi National Force (MNF) also comprising of Britain France and Italy. They were their to stabilize the situation and oversee the removal of the PLO as part of the Israeli disengagement. They instead became embroiled in the Civil War and assisted the Israeli occupation forces (even going so far to use one of their battleships to fire upon Muslim groups). As they were supposed to be intervening to bring peace their shift in stance let to them becoming a recognised combatant.
Despite Iron Captains' assertion the attack on the marine barracks was carried out by a simple truck bomb, pretty crude but devastating. It killed over 240 American as well as Sixty French. Its relevance here is because that the sort of thing that had happens when you try to intervene in the Middle East.
"Islamic Jihad Organisation" is the group that claimed the attack. It is also a group that no one had ever heard before of which nobody has ever seen a member. So either this group consists of mysterious ninjas that can vanish at will, or it does not exist. Virtually no one, from Lebanese police to the CIA, believed that there actually ever was a group by that name. Most people believe it was just a front for the Revolutionary Guard or Hezbollah, or perhaps an early name for the group that would become Hezbollah. To add further credibility to that, the suicide bomber was an Iranian. Also, I seriously doubt Hamas will ever be able to assemble a bomb of that magnitude in Gaza. The delivery vehicle may have been simple, the production of such powerful fuel-air explosive without anyone finding out is anything but. If Hamas could build something like that, they undoubtedly already would have done so. Gaza is an entirely different situation than Lebanon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 16:03:17
ingtaer wrote: It wasn't carried out by either of those but by Amal or Islamic Jihad who were both bit players in that stage of the civil war.
The story behind it is that the United States arrived in Beirut as part of the Multi National Force (MNF) also comprising of Britain France and Italy. They were their to stabilize the situation and oversee the removal of the PLO as part of the Israeli disengagement. They instead became embroiled in the Civil War and assisted the Israeli occupation forces (even going so far to use one of their battleships to fire upon Muslim groups). As they were supposed to be intervening to bring peace their shift in stance let to them becoming a recognised combatant.
Despite Iron Captains' assertion the attack on the marine barracks was carried out by a simple truck bomb, pretty crude but devastating. It killed over 240 American as well as Sixty French. Its relevance here is because that the sort of thing that had happens when you try to intervene in the Middle East.
"Islamic Jihad Organisation" is the group that claimed the attack. It is also a group that no one had ever heard before of which nobody has ever seen a member. So either this group consists of mysterious ninjas that can vanish at will, or it does not exist. Virtually no one, from Lebanese police to the CIA, believed that there actually ever was a group by that name. Most people believe it was just a front for the Revolutionary Guard or Hezbollah, or perhaps an early name for the group that would become Hezbollah. To add further credibility to that, the suicide bomber was an Iranian.
Also, I seriously doubt Hamas will ever be able to assemble a bomb of that magnitude in Gaza. The delivery vehicle may have been simple, the production of such powerful fuel-air explosive without anyone finding out is anything but. If Hamas could build something like that, they undoubtedly already would have done so. Gaza is an entirely different situation than Lebanon.
Plus the odds of letting a large vehicle like that anywhere close to a US army or IDF base are pretty slim. Barring James Bond stuff like using a stolen vehicle or something like that.
That said, the tactic has been used a few times in Iraq and Afghanistan as a perimeter-breaching measure so troops inside would be significantly more alert and aware than in Lebanon.
Oh, and they did appeal it, calling it unfair of the courts to prohibit them from using children as human shields. Despite court rulings, they were doing it as recent as March of this year.
Xenomancers wrote: Can someone explain to me why Hamas is allowed to exist by the western powers? I'm not a big fan of intervention - I think this is a problem we should let Israel take care of themselves. However, If any government deserved to be removed from power and considering how easy it would be - it has to be Hamas.
Because every time that anyone has tried to end it, Israel has killed the replacements. Efforts by Fatah to eliminate Hamas has been crushed hard by Israel and the United States. You do grasp that THEY PUT HAMAS THERE because Fatah had given up on terrorism and they were not happy with that.
You believe Israel want's hamas in power? I guess that could explain why they don't wipe them out - seems counter productive though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 18:00:23
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Counter productive how though? For all its rethoric the worst Hamas could muster was a few guys with hand grenades in a crowd of angry civilians. Hamas is the enemy you know and the justification you need. Once Hamas is gone Palestinians won't be any less angry, I mean most Israeli victims of violence in recent years have fallen close to the West Bank and not Gaza.
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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Disciple of Fate wrote: Counter productive how though? For all its rethoric the worst Hamas could muster was a few guys with hand grenades in a crowd of angry civilians. Hamas is the enemy you know and the justification you need. Once Hamas is gone Palestinians won't be any less angry, I mean most Israeli victims of violence in recent years have fallen close to the West Bank and not Gaza.
I think Israels greatest fear is some kind of biological or chemical attack on one of their cities - Don't you think Gaza under the rule of hamas makes that more likely?
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Disciple of Fate wrote: Counter productive how though? For all its rethoric the worst Hamas could muster was a few guys with hand grenades in a crowd of angry civilians. Hamas is the enemy you know and the justification you need. Once Hamas is gone Palestinians won't be any less angry, I mean most Israeli victims of violence in recent years have fallen close to the West Bank and not Gaza.
I think Israels greatest fear is some kind of biological or chemical attack on one of their cities - Don't you think Gaza under the rule of hamas makes that more likely?
I would suspect it probably makes no difference for a couple of reasons. First and most importantly, without removing the pressures that created Hamas, something else will fill the same role, we've seen that repeatedly throughout the middle east in recent decades, and that something else is invariably even more violent and radical. Second, Gaza is blockaded, everything coming in or out is controlled and inspected. The facilities and equipment, to say nothing of the human expertise required, necessary for a major biochem warfare attack (and not just something like a chlorine bomb made from pool chemicals) would probably be a big noticeable red flag.
More importantly, there are practical reasons such weapons dont see normal use. They're awkward, expensive, difficult and dangerous to manufacture and deploy, their actual casualty effects are wildly variable and situational, and they are hard to control once deployed with a high likelyhood of turning on their users. These things really are very scary sounding but make really terrible weapons. If they were super effective, no ban or moral issues would prevent their routine use, their greatest role is initial psychological shock, after which countermeasures rapidly diminish their value over time starting as soon as the other side realizes what it is dealing with.
Not saying its impossible, but broadly speaking, biochem warfare isnt generally a terribly functional aspect of conflict, generally the same resources invested in conventional weapons will get you a whole lot more.
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Disciple of Fate wrote: Counter productive how though? For all its rethoric the worst Hamas could muster was a few guys with hand grenades in a crowd of angry civilians. Hamas is the enemy you know and the justification you need. Once Hamas is gone Palestinians won't be any less angry, I mean most Israeli victims of violence in recent years have fallen close to the West Bank and not Gaza.
I think Israels greatest fear is some kind of biological or chemical attack on one of their cities - Don't you think Gaza under the rule of hamas makes that more likely?
Not really. Hamas rules a tiny bit of territory that is heavily monitored. What Hamas wants to do and what Hamas can do are miles apart. Israel watches them like hawks and routinely kills anyone in the Hamas leadership they can get their hands on and consider too dangerous, if somebody so much as farts the Israelis likely know. Its incredibly unlikely Hamas will ever develop the capacity in Gaza, let alone the delivery mechanism required to be effective. And for Hamas a dozens others, removing Hamas doesn't remove the underlying conditions that create the urges Hamas profits from.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 19:36:50
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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1750 pts Blood Specters
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
