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Nothing has really changed since I started playing. Try hards will try hard, tournaments are bad, people who don't play the meta rarely pull wins, and the internet is filled with people complaining about everything all the time.

The only upside now seems to be that the meta chasers are getting burned a lot quicker than in the past which is good.

The 3 ways system IMO isn't to be used as a form of "Look how many ways you can play 40k" but rather should be seen as a statement of intentions for the players. For example:
I rock up to my local gaming place and ask for a game. I say that I'd like to play Narrative and drop a 1k point list of Alpha Legion containing mostly Cultists and the odd HQ to represent a Cult uprising. If the other player dropped a meta list designed to win tournaments I'd call the game off because that's not what I'm looking for. Likewise, if someone asked me they'd like to practice for a Matched play tournament and I brought a list that didn't challenge my opponent, I wouldn't be doing my best to help them have the game they want.
That being said, GW doesn't do this properly for their own damn events so why should anyone else.

The complaints about Infinity's balance and handling of models that are out of production are weird to me on a GW thread. I mean, wasn't an entire system destroyed, with entire armies not properly updated to the current standard? At least if you have a problem with infinity's rules, they're free. The army builder, the core rules, the updated rules, the wiki, the ITS rules. They're all free. And it has a cheaper buy in and hobby time cost than most 40k armies. Infinity has its own problems, like Guided Missile Launchers, like entire Subfactions being out of production, like some Subfactions not getting the love they need. But it is not comparable to 40k, and the armies are still plenty playable. The issue tends to be that the faction identity is being lost more than that they can't function.

 TheBestBucketHead wrote:
The complaints about Infinity's balance and handling of models that are out of production are weird to me on a GW thread. I mean, wasn't an entire system destroyed, with entire armies not properly updated to the current standard?

Sure, but so have several Sectorials and one entire faction(Tohaa) been in Infinity.

At least if you have a problem with infinity's rules, they're free.

Are the models free? No?

The army builder, the core rules, the updated rules, the wiki, the ITS rules. They're all free.

They're also basically run by a third party.

And it has a cheaper buy in and hobby time cost than most 40k armies.

lol, sure it does.

Infinity has its own problems, like Guided Missile Launchers, like entire Subfactions being out of production, like some Subfactions not getting the love they need. But it is not comparable to 40k, and the armies are still plenty playable.

Tell that to anyone trying to get into the game via Merovingia or Shock Army or Tohaa.

The issue tends to be that the faction identity is being lost more than that they can't function.

Right, which is a result of the fact that the game is a bloated mess because of the USRs they keep tacking into the game.

For heck's sake, the Tartary Army Korps was literally just a copy/paste of USARF for several of its units but with additional skills thrown in.

Karol wrote:
How does that work in practice. Someone plants a unit on an objective to hold it. You move a chunk of your army to destroy it, then shooting or melee phase happens and transhuman gets poped and because this is a gatcha, you roll back the entire turn back to the movment phase so you can move two additional units in range, so on avarge you can destroy the unit with trans? Plus such a way of playing would mean that anyone who could make an error could just claim that it wasn't one, but rather a gatcha and that they now invoke the rule of taking back moves.

Not a 100% sure this was directed at me, but I'll give it a go since seems to be directed at me.

I would imagine, that if my space marine opponent moves Primaris on to an objective. I don't know (for sake of this example) Transhuman or similar strat exists. I move one or more units to attempt to take that objective. I shoot or charge/attack that unit on the objective. My opponent pops Transhuman. I didn't know about it, but I still have to take that objective whether I need 3+ to wound or I need 6+ to wound. So I continue my attack anyway because I do need to take that objective. I mean, Transhuman doesn't make Primaris invincible. I've already played a few games where it was just wasted CP.

You could argue I may have tried for a different objective, but the unit controlling it could be Primaris and also had Transhuman placed on them. So the fact I didn't know of existence it mostly academic anyway. There's also a very good chance my opponent (because they aren't a jerk) would inform me of their defensive strat options as I initiated my move toward that objective. There by nullifying your example before it gets too far as well as preventing a gotcha in the future as I am educated/reminded to that strat now. Which is what I do with Transhuman, Auspex Scan Unyielding in the Face of the Foe, etc. when I am playing my Primaris space marines.

Certain actions have to been done to win games. Regardless if they are efficient or not. And part of the game is my opponent doing what they can to prevent my force from having their way all game long. Occasionally, things a player was unaware of are going to pop-up long after the game can be backtracked to repair it. Neither myself nor the players I am willing to spend 4+ hours playing are so invested in winning that when these things happen, we can't let it go. Warhammer 40k being an analog tabletop game is always going to have stuff like this since it is up to the players to referee the game.

Things get missed, forgotten or otherwise done wrong. There are literally no stakes involved with winning or losing in the games I play. The stakes ARE fairly substantial for being a poor winner/loser or otherwise poor sport about how you play 40k. No one I game with thinks less of a person that couldn't win a game with the easiest to pilot 2000pt netlist versus 500 points of the weakest units in the game. However, a player will very quickly find themselves at the fringe of the group if they constantly show poor sportsmanship. And it could take years to get back in the good graces of many of the other players.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

I mean, GW did try and make an app.. that doesnt work... and you gotta pay for...

The app is free, you pay for contents.

So no it isn't free

It's freemium, assuming you buy a legitimate codex and enter the code, the rules for your faction are available with free points/errata updates. The subscription unlocks the army builder (trash), advanced core rules (useful) and remaining 8th ed content (rapidly becoming useless)

I only care about responding to the model and un-updated factions.

The models are cheap, because you can just use silhouettes. It's a game designed around silhouettes. Unlike 40k where every bit of the model is important for true line of sight, Infinity doesn't need actual models. Even then, there are 150 point boxes for like $50, and that is enough for as many starter games as you'd like.

Un-updated factions are a problem in any system, and I'd like any non updated sectorials or factions to be updated, but it's nowhere near as bad as Warhammer Fantasy to Age of Sigmar. And they're still playable, they just aren't updated to the same standard. Infinity is great. It has problems, but it's in a far better situation than 40k, and I can't believe that GW is less reliable, as the powerhouse of the market, than Corvus Belli.

Also, I don't care if the books and army builder are third party. I care that they work well.

The books are first party. Nowhere was it said they were third party. The app is now first party. The wiki is third party, basically run by a UK retailer that is all over their junk. I guarantee you that the second there's a falling out there, that wiki becomes trash.

They're also usually hot messes of mistranslated gobbleydegook and wildly inconsistent standards of art.

Something "still being playable, just not updated to the same standard" is just as relevant to GW's products...unless there's not really any kind of Oldhammer communities like get crowed about all the time here?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Now do the part where for Infinity, that unit actually has a limited lifespan because once the subfaction it's a part of gets shelved? There will not be any updating of it aside from a "See ya!" pass while the fans constantly clamor that "IT'LL BE BACK! YOU'LL SEE!" or "YOU CAN STILL PLAY WITH THEM!".

Morat updates are coming out as we speak. Infinity cycles through given sectorials. So fans saying "IT'LL BE BACK!" are right, lol.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Using that mess of a game and its constant creeping bloat is disingenuous. And yeah, the rules might be free...but the lore sure as hell isn't.
Oh! And if you want to talk about expensive games? Infinity's your jam! It's a perfect example of what everyone here loves to cry about with the "things being locked in boxes". Whole profiles are basically considered an actual monetary tax for "the good stuff".

Considering the game is incredibly free with proxies and conversions this is disingenuous. Again, you're spreading lies and bs about CB. I'll talk gak about CB when they deserve it, but what you're saying here is just untrue.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
(TTS is magical for infinity tho)

I have found that sitting in front of a PC to simulate playing a tabletop game to be a waste of my time. The time is much better invested playing actual video games or actual board games.

 Jidmah wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
(TTS is magical for infinity tho)

I have found that sitting in front of a PC to simulate playing a tabletop game to be a waste of my time. The time is much better invested playing actual video games or actual board games.

You're not entirely wrong that there's a magic to the act of moving around figures but once I find a good simulator for Mansions of Madness for my friends and I that's all over.

I actually prefer TTS with my friends scattered all over the world now.