Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

LORDS
Dreadlord 300
Heavy Armour
Sea Dragon Cloak
Shield
Crown of Command
Pendant of Khaeleth
Sword of Might
Dragonhelm
Dark Pegasus

Supreme Sorceress 285
Level 4
Sacrificial Dagger
Shadow

HEROES
Death Hag 225
Cauldron
BSB

Sorceress 125
Fire
Dispel Scroll

CORE
10 Warriors 110
Full Command
Shields
Standard of Discipline

10 Corsairs 150
Full Command
Sea Serpent Standard

10 Crossbows 115
Shields
Musician

10 Corsairs 135
Full Command
Banner of Eternal Flame

10 Corsairs 150
Full Command
Banner of Murder

5 Harpies 55

SPECIAL
10 Black Guard 137
Musician

10 Black Guard 137
Musician

6 Shades 102
Additional Hand Weapon

6 Shades 102
Additional Hand Weapon

10 Witch Elves 130
Full Command
Gleaming Pennant

10 Witch Elves 140
Full Command
Banner of Swiftness


I'm looking for something new.. The plan is that each unit that can hold up in combat, will do so with buffs as well as being cheap enough to redirect from the rest of my army should needs be.

As for the peg lord, he is in there to deal with flying characters and stuff like skullcrushers or Knight buses.

Interesting, very interesting.

Well, I've said it before and I'll do so again, I really don't like running a Peg Lord and a Level 4 in the same list. I mean, your characters eat up so many points, you run the risk of your MSU still being outnumbered unit-wise against cheaper armies, which is obviously not a good thing. Then again, the Peg Lord does have about the same combat effectiveness as a couple of your units, so I guess whatever works.

I'd also recommend dropping a few of those Magic Banners you have. Because your units are so small and, individually, so easily destroyed, a lot of them will never get used and hence become a points sink. So I'd drop a few and get another small unit, if you can.

I also think that Metal is a much better choice for your Level 1 (although I know you like running Fire on Lvl1s) because the majority of the units in your army struggle against high armoured, elite units, such as Chaos Knights, since they have neither the number or the penetrative power to break through them. I guess your Peg Lord can handle them, but I really think that Metal magic would be a fantastic solution to this anyway (it is free after all) and your opponent's going to be so concerned about stopping the buffs you'll be throwing around, I doubt he'd consider a measly lvl1 metal mage...

 The Shadow wrote:
Well, I've said it before and I'll do so again, I really don't like running a Peg Lord and a Level 4 in the same list.

The only reason he is in the list is for tying up units. If you can suggest something else that can do it as well as the lord does, I would be glad to take it.


As for the banners, they are there to round out the numbers. The frenzied corsairs and the armour piercing ones both serve a purpose, but other than that, I am likely to drop banners and champions to make sure that the banner is the last one to go. I am also toying with dropping witch elves and the downgrading the pegasus to a dark steed, so I can fit in 2 hydras. (The reason for the downgrade is the SCGT comp.)

I would agree with your choice hear, the peg lord and sorceress still work decently in the same army, can you also explain to me why you have chosen to put a death hag in a unit with a cauldron of blood? From what I see it makes her static and pointless, shes not going to earn her points back. Just seems a waste to me... I personally don't see many benefits to a CoB in the first place...

As far as the list goes the first thing I saw was the dagger. Your units are already small and if you start hacking them off one at a time. Your going to create an issue of ld checks if the enemy can find and use that.

Something else to note about the caster is that its 285 point of easy kill. If somebody brings a death caster, which your going to see in a three round event. Your going to be facing off vs something that is going to try and snipe your caster over and over of which in time they will get. I find the ToP and Lichbone pennat to be the anti magic set up for the most part.

As noted the banner issue, I do not see that big of an issue with it. The reasoning is that each banner is cheap and has a role. Granted some of the banner I could see you doing with out. You already have shadow magic so you could remove BoEF as you can just pit big nasties off the board.

Also note that you have a lvl one in fire so its another reason to remove the BoEF. Then again I would opt to put this guy in metal because you can still effect units with the sig spell even if there armour is less.

In this list I would opt to have the bsb on foot. I just dont see the cauldron being that big of a threat to a list. Then again I do see your reasoning behind the cauldron bsb. Its just a tuff unit all around and keeps the bsb alive.

I know your wanting to change things up but I feel that the list is weaker in that. The cauldron really makes units of 20 strong witches that nasty. As well having the dagger allows you to sac guys over and over as needed.

BaconUprising wrote:
I would agree with your choice hear, the peg lord and sorceress still work decently in the same army, can you also explain to me why you have chosen to put a death hag in a unit with a cauldron of blood? From what I see it makes her static and pointless, shes not going to earn her points back. Just seems a waste to me... I personally don't see many benefits to a CoB in the first place...

A) The cauldron is an upgrade for the Death Hag, and it makes her survivable against most things due to it being T10.

B) It isn't static, the 5" move doesn't sound like much, but if you're belting forwards 10" per turn, you're playing wrong. As for it being pointless, it is the opposite. The buffs are brilliant, and she doesn't earn her points back but she is worth her weight in gold.


The extra attack, is really good against stuff like skaven, the 5+ ward makes elves slightly more durable and the killing blow synergises with the multi attack models well, allowing them to deal with heavy cavalry.

6 Witch Elves? 1 row of 6 or 2 rows of 3?

Carneage wrote:
6 Witch Elves? 1 row of 6 or 2 rows of 3?

Two units of 10. Depending on what I'm taking, they will be either 5*2, or 7 in the front and 3 in the back.

As for units of 6, 3*2 so they can snipe characters.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
I would agree with your choice hear, the peg lord and sorceress still work decently in the same army, can you also explain to me why you have chosen to put a death hag in a unit with a cauldron of blood? From what I see it makes her static and pointless, shes not going to earn her points back. Just seems a waste to me... I personally don't see many benefits to a CoB in the first place...

A) The cauldron is an upgrade for the Death Hag, and it makes her survivable against most things due to it being T10.

B) It isn't static, the 5" move doesn't sound like much, but if you're belting forwards 10" per turn, you're playing wrong. As for it being pointless, it is the opposite. The buffs are brilliant, and she doesn't earn her points back but she is worth her weight in gold.


The extra attack, is really good against stuff like skaven, the 5+ ward makes elves slightly more durable and the killing blow synergises with the multi attack models well, allowing them to deal with heavy cavalry.

Didn't even know they could move

BaconUprising wrote:
Didn't even know they could move

It's a war machine, they use the crews movement.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
Didn't even know they could move

It's a war machine, they use the crews movement.

Looking at the book now I can see it is a war machine but I thought it was a static piece. Doesnt really make sense on account of the model having no wheels...

BaconUprising wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
Didn't even know they could move

It's a war machine, they use the crews movement.

Looking at the book now I can see it is a war machine but I thought it was a static piece. Doesnt really make sense on account of the model having no wheels...

You really want to start griping about realism in a game with demon tongue chariots and magic?

I know I know but I just assumed that as there were no wheels it would be unable to move...

BaconUprising wrote:
I know I know but I just assumed that as there were no wheels it would be unable to move...

Magic.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
I know I know but I just assumed that as there were no wheels it would be unable to move...

Magic.

This is genuinely the answer to every problem in Warhammer Fantasy...

As for the list changes, I'd definitely drop all those random banners and unit champions. In a MSU army, you really want as many MSUs as you can, that's what gives you the advantage after all. I think a Hydra would be a good idea too, since one has just as much, if not more, killing power as any of your MSUs (de-buffed) but then again, your list has an interesting niche in that cannons are practically useless against them (well, a waste of points anyway), so including Hydras will only give them something to do.... Food for thought.

As for downgrading the Peg Lord, I think that's probably a good idea. A Dark Steed is still fast, though you do lose the flying advantage. It's up to you what you'd value more: the ability to fly or a sizeable contribution to another MSU.

F***ing dreadlords, even grimgor can't kill it

frarlkanz wrote:
F***ing dreadlords, even grimgor can't kill it

I now pride myself on the fact that yesterday I did kill one!

BaconUprising wrote:

frarlkanz wrote:
F***ing dreadlords, even grimgor can't kill it

I now pride myself on the fact that yesterday I did kill one!

I've had one killed by ungor raiders. Against Grimgor, He will rarely ever take a wound.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

frarlkanz wrote:
F***ing dreadlords, even grimgor can't kill it

I now pride myself on the fact that yesterday I did kill one!

I've had one killed by ungor raiders. Against Grimgor, He will rarely ever take a wound.

Yeah, but, the reason things can't kill him is because of the reverse ward save, so him dieing to weaker units is more likely

frarlkanz wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

frarlkanz wrote:
F***ing dreadlords, even grimgor can't kill it

I now pride myself on the fact that yesterday I did kill one!

I've had one killed by ungor raiders. Against Grimgor, He will rarely ever take a wound.

Yeah, but, the reason things can't kill him is because of the reverse ward save, so him dieing to weaker units is more likely

The best ways to kill him are massed low strength shooting and artillery. Which are both things OnG have. Doom divers are really good at killing him.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

frarlkanz wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

frarlkanz wrote:
F***ing dreadlords, even grimgor can't kill it

I now pride myself on the fact that yesterday I did kill one!

I've had one killed by ungor raiders. Against Grimgor, He will rarely ever take a wound.

Yeah, but, the reason things can't kill him is because of the reverse ward save, so him dieing to weaker units is more likely

The best ways to kill him are massed low strength shooting and artillery. Which are both things OnG have. Doom divers are really good at killing him.

Ironically, in my experience, the best way to take one down is Repeater Crossbowmen (we've had a few DE Civil Wars at our FLGS...)

 The Shadow wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

frarlkanz wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

frarlkanz wrote:
F***ing dreadlords, even grimgor can't kill it

I now pride myself on the fact that yesterday I did kill one!

I've had one killed by ungor raiders. Against Grimgor, He will rarely ever take a wound.

Yeah, but, the reason things can't kill him is because of the reverse ward save, so him dieing to weaker units is more likely

The best ways to kill him are massed low strength shooting and artillery. Which are both things OnG have. Doom divers are really good at killing him.

Ironically, in my experience, the best way to take one down is Repeater Crossbowmen (we've had a few DE Civil Wars at our FLGS...)

I did say massed low strength shooting.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

frarlkanz wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

frarlkanz wrote:
F***ing dreadlords, even grimgor can't kill it

I now pride myself on the fact that yesterday I did kill one!

I've had one killed by ungor raiders. Against Grimgor, He will rarely ever take a wound.

Yeah, but, the reason things can't kill him is because of the reverse ward save, so him dieing to weaker units is more likely

The best ways to kill him are massed low strength shooting and artillery. Which are both things OnG have. Doom divers are really good at killing him.

Ironically, in my experience, the best way to take one down is Repeater Crossbowmen (we've had a few DE Civil Wars at our FLGS...)

I did say massed low strength shooting.

But Doom Divers are S5, and do D6 Hit, how is that massed low strength shooting? I swear the Dreadlord gets a 2+ or only fails on a 6 against it, from what I remember.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
I know I know but I just assumed that as there were no wheels it would be unable to move...

Magic.

In that case you need to roll to cast when you move...

 GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

frarlkanz wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

frarlkanz wrote:
F***ing dreadlords, even grimgor can't kill it

I now pride myself on the fact that yesterday I did kill one!

I've had one killed by ungor raiders. Against Grimgor, He will rarely ever take a wound.

Yeah, but, the reason things can't kill him is because of the reverse ward save, so him dieing to weaker units is more likely

The best ways to kill him are massed low strength shooting and artillery. Which are both things OnG have. Doom divers are really good at killing him.

Ironically, in my experience, the best way to take one down is Repeater Crossbowmen (we've had a few DE Civil Wars at our FLGS...)

I did say massed low strength shooting.[/quote ]Yeah, doom diver doesn't seem great

But Doom Divers are S5, and do D6 Hit, how is that massed low strength shooting? I swear the Dreadlord gets a 2+ or only fails on a 6 against it, from what I remember.

 GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

frarlkanz wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

frarlkanz wrote:
F***ing dreadlords, even grimgor can't kill it

I now pride myself on the fact that yesterday I did kill one!

I've had one killed by ungor raiders. Against Grimgor, He will rarely ever take a wound.

Yeah, but, the reason things can't kill him is because of the reverse ward save, so him dieing to weaker units is more likely

The best ways to kill him are massed low strength shooting and artillery. Which are both things OnG have. Doom divers are really good at killing him.

Ironically, in my experience, the best way to take one down is Repeater Crossbowmen (we've had a few DE Civil Wars at our FLGS...)

I did say massed low strength shooting.

But Doom Divers are S5, and do D6 Hit, how is that massed low strength shooting? I swear the Dreadlord gets a 2+ or only fails on a 6 against it, from what I remember.

Doom Divers do D6 hits and ignore armour. Which halves the lords' effectiveness.

frarlkanz wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
I know I know but I just assumed that as there were no wheels it would be unable to move...

Magic.

In that case you need to roll to cast when you move...

He's got you there...