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So I have been playing Necrons so far and haven't really been doing so welll...
Partially because I am used to playing Dark Eldar and tabling people...

But still it feels like Necrons lack a bit in a few areas I have noticed and I can't seem to figure out how to deal with it...

So:
1) Very lack of long range support
reason: besides the DArk and some Cryptek Lances or some HGC there's nothing in the codex that can really hurt people at far ranges...
This is probably because I have dealt with armies that have quite a few long range guns like Eldar, with a bunch of 36" guns and stuff...
So how would I counter that?

2) How do we deal with nids at all?
reason: I feel like that we have a very hard time dealing with high T stuff, I was playing with a guy today with nids and he had Iron Arm on his Swarmlord and I was wounding him on 6s which even with combined fire power was really hard to take down...
My list wasn't optimized for that game though so losing made sense, but I still felt like with a more optimized list high T is still a very severe problem that we can't deal with as easy as it seems...

3) Low Initiative really hurts us a lot...
MSS was AMAZING, but the thing is the rest of the squad basically shreds us to death before we can even attack, well maybe not to bits and pieces since I am using Wraiths, but we do wittle a lot down before we get to strike... and even overlords and Destroyer lords, if I get to strike I generally kill them but the thing is I rarely do because I just die most of the time...
Once or twice I charged into units with rending and that might have been a bad idea for my Destroyer Lord, but still we get wittled down a good bit before we strike and not sure if there is a way to fix it...

4) No psychic powers/defense really hurt a lot...
Fighting against Eldar was a nightmare...Fortune here and there and doom here doom there...
Yeah, I couldn't hurt anything for majority of the time since he kept rerolling all his 4++ invuls...75% chance of passing is not bad...
So what can we do about this?

The above are some of the things that I feel like are a huge problem that we have and mostly I think if my opponent has either long range or high T there's not much I can do about it...

I don't know, overall can someone give me some suggestion how to build a more competitve list?

We need to see your list.

With the current ruleset necrons have, you have GOT to be wasting points somewhere or just having really, really bad dice.
We need to know who you were playing and what you brought to help. I dont know of anything in the necron dex that doesnt have some use to it except Flayed Ones.

Your list sir. And there are not a lot of problems Night Scythes can't solve.

I can only really address a few of your points without your list. But necrons can get a 4+ DTW from gloom prisms on spyders so there's a good amount of psychic defense.

The low initiative can be mitigated by not getting into combat with anything but necron dedicated HtH units like wraiths and lychguard.

And fighting tyranids is all about higher strength shooting and CC. And focusing down the big gribblies as fast as possible. For 270 points you can get 3 annihalation barges that shoot 4 twin linked str7 that multiply on 6's plus 2 str 6 per turn. They can possibly decimate full wound trygons or tervigons in 2 barrages.

The first list that I played against Nids were the difficult terrain list, I know it was a very very bad match up since half the units ignore difficult and it was just for fun...

So essentially
C'tan with writhing
Wraiths and Dlord
Warriors with Ghost Ark
Doom Scythe
Imotekh

Horrible list, but still seems hard to have something to deal with T6> things...since they can have either Endurance/Iron Army...
And I can't put enough wounds on them to hurt them...


For the other list since last time I played against the Eldar I was blasted to death with the 60" Fire Prisms and 36" Warwalkers I decided to bring some long range guns as well...
So it was like
HQ:
Overlord w/ Warscythe, MMS, Phase Shifter // CCB
Destroyer Lord w/ MMS, Sempiternal Weave

Royal Court:
Cryptek w/ Harbinger of Destruction, Solar Pulse
Cryptek w/ Harbinger of Despair, Veil of Darkness


Elites:
Triarch w/ HGC
5 Death Marks

Troops:
8 Warriors
8 Warriors
5 Immortals w/ Telsa // Night Scythe
5 Immortals w/ Telsa // Night Scythe

Fast
5 Wraiths w/ 3 Whip Coils

Heavy:
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
Annihilation Barge w/ Guass

Anyway, this game was pretty close and if my Destroyer didn't die I would have tied the game, since it was KP.

So I don't know, since last time I got blasted to shreds by long-range just wondering what you guys think to deal with the above problems, like what units to bring and stuff.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
1 more thing to add, I don't want to spam fliers, and only have 2 nightscythes anyway.

Necrons are one of the strongest armies in the game at the moment, particularly so because they don't really need any allies to cover holes. They do struggle a bit against Nids, but they do have the tools to beat them, particularly so in objective based games. The key against Nids is to not commit early, chip away at their Tervigons and Flyrants first before you close up. The real issue with Necrons is that they have very limited options if they want to be competitive, so much of the codex is just total trash.

Basic template for the usual Necron builds at the moment is:
15+ Wraiths
3 Annihilation Barges
3+ units of Warriors or Immortals in Night Scythes

This is usually combined with 2 D Lords to lead the Wraiths, although Overlords are still ok since they get you access to Courts. Generally the army works by shoving the Wraiths down peoples throats, some armies can deal with them but by the time they do its usually turn 5+ and you just fly onto objectives and win it. Occasionally you have to play safe with the Wraiths and hold them back for a turn or two (like against Nids for instance).

Your list has a couple of obvious things which don't really fit. The Triach is really only useful for twin linked units in a massed shooting list, but this list has very little to make use of it. Doomsday Arks are pretty terrible, particularly when you compare them to Annihilation Barges. The main thing is that your list has no real punch to it, you have the Wraiths and maybe the Bargelord which can threaten people but the rest of the list does very limited damage.

The DArk with the Triarch worked really well together, except that even with twin-linked HGC I still somehow managed to miss 2 turns in a row...

But yeah the DArks actually killed the most the entire game, since they had a really good vantage point.

But I do agree though that Annhilation barges are really good.
Though then comes the problem of the ranged problem, such as 60" guns or even >36" guns can be a problem since we can only snap fire 1 gun after moving 12" for the annhilation barge...


Like I have thought about the list that you have there, but it just feels like I am spamming units of the same type...not something that I like to do normally...

Are you playing on standard 6' x 4' boards with standard rulebook deployments? In all of those you start 24" apart, with 12-24" behind that to deploy in. If you deploy on the line then at worst your Barges are going to be hitting things at full effectiveness by turn 2 (more 12", flat out 6", move 6" next turn and shoot), and its very rare that you can't hit something moving 12" and snapping turn 1. Anyone who deploys so deep against you that you can't hit them at all will usually be handing you the game, as you will end up controlling the center of the board. The same applies to Wraiths and any of the fliers, they should all be able to hit things by turn 2 at the latest (and are durable enough that they rarely will die before that).

Like I said, its unfortunate, but the bulk of the Necron codex is trash if you are looking at things from a competitive POV. Without looking at units which can be made useful with combos (the Triarch being a good example, useful if you have heaps of shots to twin-link but otherwise its pretty terrible), nothing in the Elite slot is useful, only Wraiths are useful in the Fast slot and only Annihilation Barges and Doom Scythes are useful in the Heavy slot.

But I can't really deploy them on the line since they normally get shot to death without some decent cover,

Wraiths generally get 2nd turn assault as far as I have seen, so no problem there...


Still I don't know how to deal with High T besides spamming wraiths or A.Barges...

And long range, the Eldar I played had 2 Fire Prisms, 3 Warwalkers, Aegis Defence Line, Bright Lances with guardians, and a bunch of farseer bikes and FireDragons pushing my front completely that it was impossible to prioritize at shooting their long range units....

Spam Anni. Barges, Spam Wraiths, take 2-3 Scythes for mobile scoring. I always suggest taking a large Immortal or Warrior unit + a Res Orb for a good durable scoring base.

Nids is a very hard matchup for you. Enfeeble makes wraiths a lot less scary (most popular Tyranid build gets 14 rolls on biomancy meaning an average of 1-4 Enfeebles), 2 of them will ruin your day. Anni Barges don't do much to threaten MCs because it allows them to take their armor save and they will often have FNP or Iron Arm. To beat Nid's i'd consider Deathmarks and a unit of max Wraiths with a whip and a D. Lord with MSS. Watch out though, you'll need to use it carefully because its easy to bog it down with sacrificial Gants. The best thing you can do vs Nids (I play them, so this is from experience), is use your superior mobility to your advantage, draw the Nid player forward and force him to split his forces.

Allies would also be quite useful. Orks would help and so do CSM.

The longer ranged armies are taken care of with a Solar Pulse Destruction Cryptek. 1500+ point games, take Imotekh with a Chronometron to keep his night fighting going. Those 48"-72" range weapons just became 36" flat, this makes the enemies parking lot useless for up to two turns and draws the longer range troops out into the firing lanes. The end result is your opponent either sucks up the turn(s) of no shooting, invalidating the points spent on those troops for that shooting phase, or they try to justify the expenditure, and move them up, putting the fight on your terms.

So to have a TAC list, I have to have Solar Pulses and spam Wraiths Spam A. Barges and scythes right?

Not exactly. I personally dont use Wraiths myself, as I prefer foot lists with Ghost Arks to replenish any lost Lord at the front of a group of 15+ warriors behind them with 2+ saves.

My personal fav post 1500 is Imotekh with Zahndrekh and one Doomsday Ark. Take away Night Vision from one unit with it on the enemy side, give the D Ark Night Vision and blast the other squadron with it with that str 9 AP1 template. Not much will stick around after two turns of that kind of fire power coming at them from the other side of the board. Stick Imotekh in a NS with a Chronometron to keep Night Fighting going and back up Zahndrekh with a solid group of warriors and a Ghost Ark (dont embark though, you wont be able to use Counter Tactics inside the Ark).

That's such an expensive unit for an entirely ineffective method of dealing damage...

If the D.Ark misses you just wasted 500 points for a turn doing nothing...

Imotekh's Lightning is insanely unreliable, tried it and it's thing is entirely based on luck and it doesn't really do a lot of damage...

It could be useful but not very for his point cost.


If you aren't using Wraiths I can't see it being competitive...
Wraiths are the best unit that Necrons have in the book IMHO...

The list you have would still have trouble dealing with a bunch of High T stuff...

2 Overlords in CCB's. These can peace-out a MC each no problem. Down flyers with Anni barges, fill your GA's with 5 destrukteks and run some wraiths, x 2 immortals, one in a scythe.
If they are deep striking, back everything to the wall and wait, then cheese everything that comes in.
(Overlords need to be BUFF! MSS, SW, Orb, PS, and even Phylactery. Warscythe, 'natch).

Our best unit in the book point for point is the Anni Barge. Wraiths are close, but in a shooty army, they dont fit. Any Str 8 shot IDs them and they dont have RP.

As to Imotekh and the lightning, your point is valid, but your not buying him in that list for the lightning. Its the bonus, your buying Night Fighting and using it to lure your enemy into fighting on your terms via a set range on their long range weapons. Sure, a D Ark can be risky, but that risk can be over come with a Stalker, not preferred, but its something.

I play tyranids and was wrecked at a local 1250 tourney by a necron player sporting 3 Anni barges, 3 night scythes with min warrior and immo squads, and lord on CCB. The sheer amount of dakka his list churned out tabled me turn 4 and I had a flyrant, 2 tervigons and a trygon w. some Zoans, Biovores and Gaunts.

C'Tan are horrible, do not take them. Cost a lot of points, very fragile. Triarch Stalkers only work with Doomsday Arks and in pairs. Taking one is a bad idea. I'd not recommend either of these units, Doomsday Arks are pretty terrible too. Imotekh only works with a melee army or mass flyers. Else drop him.

For long-ranged support, try a Destrocourt, granting you 4 S8 AP2 shots or Heavy Destroyers for more S9 A2 awesomeness. Zankdrekh for the luz, he's awesome.

I Play against Nids quite often with Crons.

I usually stay put the first turn and fire away with anything that might hit (DARK?). I let him come out of cover. Then i blast away some more...
If something can take tesla, i give it. Tesla disperses on a 6 and can give some nice free hits.
The longer you can keep the battle ranged the better.

I use deathmarks/tesla and CC lord with MSS/scythes to take down any heavy stuff that might dare come near. What also might work is a Cryptek with lightningshield on a CC heavy squad. I had a Swarmlord charge himself to death on my Lychguards with shield accompanied by a Lightningfield cryptek and MSS lord Though, that will happen only once every so often cause it takes a lot of luck ;P

You could maybe though not ideally, destroyers to hunt Dinosaurs... they have str 5 ap3 shots, are reasonably tough and very mobile.(maybe a Dlord or some Heavy caoons can be added?)

You could also try to charge a large squad of scarabs into a scary *ss Dinosaur and hope 1 wound gets through... he will lose armor save for rest of the game... Though scarabs dont realy belong in a game against Nids i guess...

I have no experience with shards since i dont have one yet....

You could try trazyn,.. if he kills a gaunt, he might kill a lot more with his skill from his stave,.. but not realy reliable..

Maybe a gauntlet of fire here and there to make charging with weakened squads less attractive..