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If Heralds of Tzeentch join large Horror packs, can they bring the number of shots dealt via Flickering Fire above 4D6? The wording for flickering fire reads:

Flickering Fire of Tzeentch can be manifested using 1, 2 or 3 Warp Charge points--declare how many Warp Charge points will be used before attempting to manifest the power. Flickering Fire of Tzeentch fires an additional D6 shots for every Warp Charge point expended after the first.

So is 3 Warp Charge points the maximum? Or would a Herald-boosted Horror be able to get of 5 or 6D6?

Since it specifies 1, 2, or 3 Warp Charges, then 3 Charges is the max.

Agreed. It says you can use 1-3 warp charge points. I'm not seeing any permission to use more.

Also, I don't think it matters that the IC has joined them, he's not part of the Brotherhood of Sorcerers, so it's 2 distinct psyker entities, not one combined one.

 Drunkspleen wrote:
Also, I don't think it matters that the IC has joined them, he's not part of the Brotherhood of Sorcerers, so it's 2 distinct psyker entities, not one combined one.

This.
And with that said, you can cast the flickering fire with the herald the same time as the horrors cast theirs, and profit even greater than if you could have booster the horror flickers.

Its not 3d6 per guy is it?

I've not got the codex yet, but that seems crazy.

Bloodhorror wrote:
Its not 3d6 per guy is it?

I've not got the codex yet, but that seems crazy.

Paraphrasing - It's 2D6 for the first warp charge and +D6 for each additional warp charge (max 3)

so 4d6.

But not 4d6 per guy. 4d6 for the whole unit?

Well, it's actually D6 for each horror.

No, wait, Matt Ward didn't write this one.

4D6 max for the unit.

Ah well. That can still be quite fun ^^!

 Fayric wrote:

 Drunkspleen wrote:
Also, I don't think it matters that the IC has joined them, he's not part of the Brotherhood of Sorcerers, so it's 2 distinct psyker entities, not one combined one.

This.
And with that said, you can cast the flickering fire with the herald the same time as the horrors cast theirs, and profit even greater than if you could have booster the horror flickers.

This is deadly effective. Even better if you manage not to blow your Ld10 Prescience roll like I did yeasterday!

Even without, the combined 4D6 S6 from the squad + 3D6 S6 from the Herald + additional auto-2D6/S4 from their Blasted Standard wiped out a Deathwing command squad.
God help your opponent if there's re-rolls to-hit involved with that...

The ex. Locus of conj. also applies to the hits from the blasted standard as well. Had to read that one mid game to check, so the additional 2D6 are at S5.

I'm not really seeing how 4d6 shots at bs3 (provided you made your psy test and they didnt deny the witch it). is any good? 20 horrors = 1 shooting attack?
Horrors lost warpfire, whereas they had 60 shots, now its 4-24 that you can possibly fail entirely.
that just looks really bad. something is really off there.

An excerpt from my blog, fundaemons.blogspot.com

I'll compare their efficiency against terminators, marines and guard.  Given that flamers and screamers were majorly hurt by the new codex the horrors will have to stand up to various threats if a Tzeentch mono-build is to remain viable.

Some complained that my comparison before factored in disproportionate squad sizes, and while this was true the point per kill levelled the playing field.  This time I will compare squads of the same point cost to please the nay-sayers.  It just so happens that you can get 17 new horrors for the same cost as 9 old horrors.  Since 9 is the number of Tzeentch there must be something to this...



So, on the numbers, the unit is less efficient than it was before, but arguably has "maybe" some more flexibility depending on which phychic power you roll for.  The problem here is that before you could take a single bolt in a 5 horrors squad and camp an objective and provide some minimal anti-tank/air.  Now you take a large footprint unit that has a single power.
 
As you'll see below adding a Herald becomes a must have if you want similar results as before (which wasn't awesome to begin with).
 

 
Now, if you add a Herald into a squad you can slightly outperform the old horrors on MEQ killing, but TEQ and GEQ remain poor by comparison.  The way this comparison works if with the Presence of Conjuration (+1 strength) and using Presience to re-roll your hits.  On avergae you will kill just about 3.5 MEQ in your first turn of shooting.  Then you had better charge your screamers in to finish up the squad, because as soon as 3 of your horrors die your shooting falls of the cliff (- 25% effectiveness).
 
Now, all of that being said all it takes is a D6 deny the witch to shut you down entirely.
 

Isn't it 16.7 hits?

14 (4D6) shots at BS3 twin linked + 7 shots at BS4 twin linked.

14 shots at BS 3 twin linked == 10.5 hits
7 shots at BS 4 twin linked == 6.2 hits (herald at lvl 2)

two things I didn't factor in, the 1/12 chance Prescience doesn't go off, the 1/12 chance that the shots don't go off, and the 1/12 chance the shots get denied.

Doing some quick math, that should still net 14 hits on average, at S6.

Also not factored in is that S6 at that many hits is very effective against AV10/11 vehicles. Heck, I'd even shoot that many shots and a Doom Scythe (21 shots hitting on 6's twin-linked is upwards of 5 hits, netting you a glance and a pen)

Again, not factored into your analysis is the other things the unit does, like getting a 2++ re-rollable save when going to ground in ruins.

The analysis does not include a ML2 Herald, so only a ML1 Herald for the prescience. It also doesn't include a blasted standard. Either make the unit better, but with some drawbacks. Namely for the Herald you have to be at the front of the unit to shoot and maximize range, since you only need a single Pink Horror in 24" with brotherhood of psykers. With the new range rules you can manipulate the return fire you take this way from 24" marines.