Londenerry Mortars Caught Ready to Launch

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**Frazzled**

Wait, what? Why?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21651900

Londonderry mortars: Bombs 'within minutes' of launch
Police believe the mortar bombs were intercepted minutes before being launched The van had its roof cut back to allow the mortars to be fired
Police believe the target was a Londonderry police station
Three men have been arrested in the operation linked to dissident republicans
Two men, aged 35 and 37, were arrested at the scene at 20:15 GMT on Sunday
A 37-year-old man was arrested later after a house was searched
It is the first time dissidents have attempted this type of mortar attack
Four live mortar bombs were intercepted by police in Northern Ireland minutes before being launched, a senior detective has said.

A van had its roof cut back to allow the mortars to be fired.

Police believe the target was a Londonderry police station. Three men have been arrested in the operation linked to dissident republicans.

Chief Supt Stephen Cargin said the bombs could have caused mass murder.

Two men, aged 35 and 37, were arrested at the scene at 20:15 GMT on Sunday. One was in the van and the other was driving a motorcycle travelling behind.

A 37-year-old man was arrested later after a house was searched.

It is the first time dissidents have attempted this type of mortar attack.

About 100 families had to leave their homes at Letterkenny Road in the overnight alert.

Chief Superintendent Stephen Cargin said there could have been "mass murder if they had hit the intended targeted.

Continue reading the main story
Analysis

Vincent Kearney

BBC NI home affairs correspondent

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Police Service of Northern Ireland's decision to stop a van fitted with four primed mortars ready to fire through a hole in the roof was neither a fortunate coincidence nor a spontaneous action.

It will have been what the police describe as "an intelligence-led" operation.

It means they were operating on the basis of information gleaned from an informer or technical surveillance, or a combination of both.

The discovery clearly shows that dissident groups are developing their technical ability and remain intent on targeting police.

But it also shows how widely these groups are infiltrated by the police and the security service MI5.

Read more
He said the mortars were "primed and ready to go".

The officer described it as "a reckless attack by dissident republicans to murder police officers in the city of Derry".

"These were people who were mindless, totally reckless, willing to drive four live mortar bombs through a built-up area with no regard to the people, the residents and the families living in the area," he said.

"We believe those devices were destined for one of the police stations here in the city.

"I have no doubt they would have caused mass fatalities. They were on their way to a target. These are crude home-made devices. There is no way the people who planned their attack would have known they would have hit their target."

BBC NI Home Affairs correspondent Vincent Kearney said the discovery of the devices was "a highly significant development".

"Dissident republicans have attempted to use mortars before, but not on this scale," he said.

"A security source said this was 'a major step-up in technical ability - a number of mortars have been recovered in recent years, but not on this scale'."

Northern Ireland's Justice Minister David Ford condemned those behind the bombs.

"They are ruthless, they have no respect for life; they have no respect for the livelihoods of other people," he said.

"They have no respect for the vast civilian population in Derry never mind what may well have been a target."

SDLP MLA Pat Ramsey said: "It is a main cross-border route, one can presume it (the van) was coming from the border. It caused serious disruption for people in the Brandywell," he said.

Mr Ramsey said he watched as a petrol bomb was thrown at police as they tried to help people leave their homes on Sunday evening.

"I was appalled when I saw a petrol bomb getting thrown at a police car. No-one was injured but it was very upsetting," he said.

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Chief Superintendent Stephen Cargin: "There's no doubt that they would have caused mass casualties"
"Older people and very disabled people have had to be moved from their homes. There was a lady, a double amputee and two disabled people who needed the assistance of an ambulance to get them out.

"This is the distress that the dissidents are causing to their own people in their own communities," he said.

The people who had to leave their homes found shelter in the nearby Brooke Park Activity Centre and the GAA's sports centre at Celtic Park.

Lawrence Moore was one of the residents who had to leave his home. His family stayed with relatives for the night.

"A police Land Rover pulled across the road and we went out to see what was happening.

"We went up to the cordon and could see a white van with its doors open.

"When they moved the barrier back we had to evacuate. When the instructions came we didn't get very long to get ready.

"My son can't go to school today as I didn't have time to get all his things before we left the house."

Sinn Fein MLA Maeve McLaughlin was also on the scene during the alert.

Ms McLaughlin said that "frustration and anger was very apparent in the community".

Disruption in the area is expected to continue until at least lunch-time on Monday.

The Foyle Road and Lower Lone Moor Road at the junction of the Letterkenny Road will be closed until further notice.

Northern Ireland Secretary Theresa Villiers said it was a "grim reminder of how severe the terrorist threat continues to be in Northern Ireland".

"The people responsible are small in number and they enjoy virtually no public support at all but they have lethal intent.

"It's only thanks to the highly effective action by the PSNI that we haven't seen a huge tragedy unfolding".

Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness said: "I want to pay tribute to the PSNI for preventing what could have been a terrible loss of life in an attack which was clearly designed to damage the peace process.

"Increasingly people are providing information which is the proper thing to do so that we can thwart the efforts of those who would try to destroy the peace that has been built up and which is so admired throughout the world."

**Steve steveson**

Because some people just want to fight. No need for a cause, just hate. Fortunately they are loosing there grip, but it will take time, but it is now loose enough for the public to stand up and say no without fear. I just hope noone gets hurt by these morons.

**LuciusAR**

Many people make the mistake of assuming that just because Ireland has been out of the headlines for the last decade or so that the troubles are over.

Bombings and attempted bombings are still not uncommon in Ireland, in 2011 alone there were nearly 50 terrorist incidents related to Ireland. it’s sadly just not a fashionable story any more.

**Frazzled**

LuciusAR wrote:
Many people make the mistake of assuming that just because Ireland has been out of the headlines for the last decade or so that the troubles are over.

Bombings and attempted bombings are still not uncommon in Ireland, in 2011 alone there were nearly 50 terrorist incidents related to Ireland. it’s sadly just not a fashionable story any more.

Why?

**Dreadclaw69**

Sadly it is the small, vocal minority on the fringes who are intent on causing havoc. They don't care what the people want as long as they can keep grinding their axes they'll be happy.

**Frazzled**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Sadly it is the small, vocal minority on the fringes who are intent on causing havoc. They don't care what the people want as long as they can keep grinding their axes they'll be happy.

Further help here - whats the issues? I thought the IRA thing was done.

**Dreadclaw69**

Frazzled wrote:
Further help here - whats the issues? I thought the IRA thing was done.

The IRA have a history of splitting. The Official IRA (OIRA) went on ceasefire in the 1970's and never took up arms again, those who were unsatisfied split to form the Provisional IRA (PIRA), once the Good Friday Agreement was signed and they and their supporters (mainly Sinn Fein) started to use the ballot box those who still insisted on using violence split to form the Real IRA (RIRA) and the Continuity IRA (CIRA). These two groups are usually referred to as Dissident Republicans, along with Oglaith na hEireann (OnH) and the Irish National Liberation Army (INLA).

And that's just one side of the sectarian divide, the Loyalists have just as many acronyms

**Wyrmalla**

The main body of the IRA disarmed, but bear in mind that they were a terrorist organisation. So just because the organisation said it wouldn't use violent methods any more doesn't mean that everyone agreed. Thus there's still activists out there, both those who didn't agree with the IRA's disarmament and from new groups.

Just look at what response resulted from the Queen's visit or when they wanted to take down the Union flag apart from on certain days. The movement's less vocal than it was, and people are more focused on the big bad Arab terrorists now adays to care about Ireland's issues.

**Steve steveson**

Without wanting to trivialise the matter, having once only being saved from being caught in/near a Irish terrorist attack by my own lazyness, I think the phrase best describing the reason is "haters gonna hate".

Alot of the violence is people who only know violence. They know no other way of being and cannot accept that others have moved on.

**Dreadclaw69**

Also the border between Derry and the Republic of Ireland is pretty porous, which makes it easier for certain groups to do these things.

Wyrmalla wrote:
Just look at what response resulted from the Queen's visit

You mean when they demanded that she be tried for war crimes for what happened in Ireland?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Steve steveson wrote:
Alot of the violence is people who only know violence. They know no other way of being and cannot accept that others have moved on.

Part of the problem is that some elements of the population have an eternal victim complex. They can point to the injustices and deaths that "their side" have suffered, while trivialising or justifying the deaths on "the other side". All through a lens of distorted history. Until they they realise that both sides have suffered a great deal, and that neither Great Britain nor the Republic of Ireland want them so they need to learn to live together, not much will ever change.

**Wyrmalla**

^^' Compared to when she visited Glasgow around the same time and nobody turned up to see her...

(I was sitting in a pub right next to where she traipsed by and didn't even know who she was)

=/ Their movement was founded in the time when "Britain" really was a bit of a c*ck to those that voiced opposition to it (Imperialism and such), so the independence movement was justified. Transporting it into the present and the activists don't come across so much as freedom fighters or what not, but as agitators.

Its not something that I can chose a side on, but my friends with Irish heritage are vocal on the matter. ...But maybe that's twinned with being Scots and a mutual hate for Thatcherism. =P

**Dreadclaw69**

Wyrmalla wrote:
Its not something that I can chose a side on, but my friends with Irish heritage are vocal on the matter. ...But maybe that's twinned with being Scots and a mutual hate for Thatcherism. =P

Don't let the flag fool you, I'm Irish and was born and grew up in Northern Ireland. I moved to the US a few months ago to be with my wife.
Not to be a d*ck to your friends but when someone is removed from Northern Ireland and the situation there it is all too tempting to see it in some overly romantic light. There aren't people brandishing muskets defending their farms from the Redcoats.

Wyrmalla wrote:
Transporting it into the present and the activists don't come across so much as freedom fighters or what not, but as agitators.

They come across as agitators because they're playing to a specific audience. They get their support from people in their community who want to feel victimised. So the cycle continues.

Also, its not as if the Provisional IRA or their Loyalist equivalents just stopped existing. They've gone from terrorist groups who committed criminal acts for funds, to crime families - drugs, prostitution, extortion, fuel laundering, counterfeiting etc.

**Graphite**

Because headcases

**Dreadclaw69**

Here's an example of an agitator playing to his audience **disclaimer - the only reason that this was chosen was because it was the first one that sprang to mind. I don't support those using violence on either side**

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/school-demands-direct-apology-for-frazers-flag-slur-28750993.html

The principal of a school described by victims’ campaigner Willie Frazer as “the junior headquarters of IRA youth” has called on him to apologise to her directly.

Dera Cahalane of St Patrick’s Primary in Donaghmore has contacted the PSNI after the high-profile Protestant victims’ campaigner posted controversial remarks about her school after confusing an Italian flag flying outside it for an Irish tricolour.

Mr Frazer (51), who represents the group Families Acting for Innocent Relatives (FAIR), apologised in the media for his offensive online posting after he mistook the red third of an Italian flag flying at the school for the orange third of the Republic’s standard.

The Italian flag was flying alongside Turkish and Polish flags in honour of 11 teachers from schools in Poland, Italy and Turkey who visited the Co Tyrone school this month for a European integration project.

The Co Tyrone school normally only flies an Eco-Schools Green Flag awarded for delivery of environmental education.

After seeing photographs of the three flags, Mr Frazer, whose father was killed by the IRA, posted on Facebook: “The junior headquarters of SF/IRA youth, or it may as well be.”

He also wrote: “I wonder do they also train the children in how to use weapons?”

He said on Thursday the remark referred to photographs that emerged last year of children in south Armagh carrying replica AK-47s, and he had since put on his Facebook page a statement that the flag is not the Irish tricolour.

Ms Cahalane said she was “shocked” when she learned of Mr Frazer’s “inciteful” remarks and called on him to apologise directly to the school.

She told the Belfast Telegraph: “I was shocked at just how inciteful the comments were. I contacted the PSNI because of the safety of my children here.”

She added: “To date, the school has received no personal apology from Mr Frazer.”

Mr Frazer told the Belfast Telegraph he apologised for a “genuine mistake”.

However, he added: “If they think I’m going to get down on my hands and knees, basically the answer is no.”

**Rented Tritium**

So would I be correct in assuming that each time one of these groups stops fighting and a splinter group forms, it's slightly smaller than the last one? That sounds like progress.

**Dreadclaw69**

Rented Tritium wrote:
So would I be correct in assuming that each time one of these groups stops fighting and a splinter group forms, it's slightly smaller than the last one? That sounds like progress.

Its progress, but for whom? Having groups divide and the more extreme and motivated elements remain to further their ideology isn't a great recipe for society as a whole. Any more temperate voice isn't likely to be there.

**Wyrmalla**

That film kind of sums up the mindset of the die-hards (or at least what they aspire to). However, yes, it doesn't exactly reflect the ideals of the movement today. Nowadays I'd agree that its degraded somewhat into the sons of sons of sons creating violence for a cause that they no longer quite grasp.

I doubt that the issue'll go away though. As long as Ireland's segregated it'll exist, though it continuing in the same violent manner is questionable.

**Rented Tritium**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Rented Tritium wrote:
So would I be correct in assuming that each time one of these groups stops fighting and a splinter group forms, it's slightly smaller than the last one? That sounds like progress.

Its progress, but for whom? Having groups divide and the more extreme and motivated elements remain to further their ideology isn't a great recipe for society as a whole. Any more temperate voice isn't likely to be there.

Who cares? If the violent ones become a smaller and smaller minority, they get less and less support, money, resources, etc.

There will ALWAYS be crazy splinters. It's literally impossible to eliminate them entirely. I'd be perfectly happy with "tiny and socially shunned" for these guys.

**Dreadclaw69**

Wyrmalla wrote:
That film kind of sums up the mindset of the die-hards (or at least what they aspire to). However, yes, it doesn't exactly reflect the ideals of the movement today. Nowadays I'd agree that its degraded somewhat into the sons of sons of sons creating violence for a cause that they no longer quite grasp.

I doubt that the issue'll go away though. As long as Ireland's segregated it'll exist, though it continuing in the same violent manner is questionable.

What I thought was a decent film that explains the IRA pre-partition is "The Wind That Shakes The Barley". If you take out some of the more socialist themes the director uses its pretty good.

Rented Tritium wrote:
Who cares? If the violent ones become a smaller and smaller minority, they get less and less support, money, resources, etc.

There will ALWAYS be crazy splinters. It's literally impossible to eliminate them entirely. I'd be perfectly happy with "tiny and socially shunned" for these guys.

The problem is that with the money and jobs drying up in Northern Ireland these splinter groups now find it easier to recruit from among those who didn't grow up with the violence, but instead heard the romantiscised stories. The work that's been done to get the province this far is at risk of unravelling.
Its a bit like asking who is worried about the still burning embers once the main body of the fire has been extinguished. All it takes is for the right circumstances and the fire will burn again.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Rented Tritium wrote:
So would I be correct in assuming that each time one of these groups stops fighting and a splinter group forms, it's slightly smaller than the last one? That sounds like progress.

I don't know if you're familiar with Monty Python's Life of Brian, but it's a bit like the People's Front for the liberation of Judeah Versus the Judean People's liberation front! It would be funny if it wasn't tragic at times. In these instances, the default mode is to blame Britain.

It's tragic, because Northern Ireland is a beautiful country.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:
Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Sadly it is the small, vocal minority on the fringes who are intent on causing havoc. They don't care what the people want as long as they can keep grinding their axes they'll be happy.

Further help here - whats the issues? I thought the IRA thing was done.

It's supposed to have been done, but some people have the view that if they didn't win at the ballot box, then it's everybody else's fault, regardless of how good or bad their policies were.

**Frazzled**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Rented Tritium wrote:
So would I be correct in assuming that each time one of these groups stops fighting and a splinter group forms, it's slightly smaller than the last one? That sounds like progress.

Its progress, but for whom? Having groups divide and the more extreme and motivated elements remain to further their ideology isn't a great recipe for society as a whole. Any more temperate voice isn't likely to be there.

I would also imagine it keeps the powder keg fuse burning, which may be their intent. Create enough chaos and the portions that went hippy might start killing people in retaliation no? And then the spiral starts. Nicht gut!

**Dreadclaw69**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
It's tragic, because Northern Ireland is a beautiful country.

When my then-fiancee visited Northern Ireland to meet her soon-to-be in-laws she was taken by how beautiful the country was.

**Wyrmalla**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Wyrmalla wrote:
That film kind of sums up the mindset of the die-hards (or at least what they aspire to). However, yes, it doesn't exactly reflect the ideals of the movement today. Nowadays I'd agree that its degraded somewhat into the sons of sons of sons creating violence for a cause that they no longer quite grasp.

I doubt that the issue'll go away though. As long as Ireland's segregated it'll exist, though it continuing in the same violent manner is questionable.

What I thought was a decent film that explains the IRA pre-partition is "The Wind That Shakes The Barley". If you take out some of the more socialist themes the director uses its pretty good.

I was going to mention it, but then that would beg the question of if that represents the early IRA and Hunger is it under Thatcherism, what film takes it into the present?

No, Breakfast on Pluto doesn't cover the 1970's period...

**Albatross**

According to Frazzled's usual logic, as applied to Israel/Palestine, we should begin airstriking Northern Ireland.

Also, McGuinness has a fething nerve.

**Dreadclaw69**

Frazzled wrote:
I would also imagine it keeps the powder keg fuse burning, which may be their intent. Create enough chaos and the portions that went hippy might start killing people in retaliation no? And then the spiral starts. Nicht gut!

All it takes is for tensions to be kept high, then someone does something stupid. One side reacts, the other side retaliates and then if the security services get involved and are seen to favour either side then we're back to the worst of it again.

**KalashnikovMarine**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Wyrmalla wrote:
That film kind of sums up the mindset of the die-hards (or at least what they aspire to). However, yes, it doesn't exactly reflect the ideals of the movement today. Nowadays I'd agree that its degraded somewhat into the sons of sons of sons creating violence for a cause that they no longer quite grasp.

I doubt that the issue'll go away though. As long as Ireland's segregated it'll exist, though it continuing in the same violent manner is questionable.

What I thought was a decent film that explains the IRA pre-partition is "The Wind That Shakes The Barley". If you take out some of the more socialist themes the director uses its pretty good.

.

I'll second The Wind That Shakes the Barley it's a personal favorite of mine.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Albatross wrote:
According to Frazzled's usual logic, as applied to Israel/Palestine, we should begin airstriking Northern Ireland.

Also, McGuinness has a fething nerve.

Apart from being a former IRA leader with blood on his hands, I'm struggling to work out what McGuinness did?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Wyrmalla wrote:
That film kind of sums up the mindset of the die-hards (or at least what they aspire to). However, yes, it doesn't exactly reflect the ideals of the movement today. Nowadays I'd agree that its degraded somewhat into the sons of sons of sons creating violence for a cause that they no longer quite grasp.

I doubt that the issue'll go away though. As long as Ireland's segregated it'll exist, though it continuing in the same violent manner is questionable.

What I thought was a decent film that explains the IRA pre-partition is "The Wind That Shakes The Barley". If you take out some of the more socialist themes the director uses its pretty good.

.

I'll second The Wind That Shakes the Barley it's a personal favorite of mine.

I prefer Michael Collins. Good film as well.

**Dreadclaw69**

Wyrmalla wrote:
I was going to mention it, but then that would beg the question of if that represents the early IRA and Hunger is it under Thatcherism, what film takes it into the present?

No, Breakfast on Pluto doesn't cover the 1970's period...

No idea, does The Crying Game count?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crying_Game

Albatross wrote:
According to Frazzled's usual logic, as applied to Israel/Palestine, we should begin airstriking Northern Ireland.

Also, McGuinness has a fething nerve.

And as if Northern Ireland didn't have enough conflict each side actually picked sides in the Isreal/Palestine conflict and fly the flags along with their own. Republicans support the Palestinians, Loyalists Isreal.

You mean the esteemed Deputy First Minister Mr McGuinness? The Butcher of Derry? (please note, he didn't get that nickname for his cuts of meat)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I prefer Michael Collins. Good film as well.

Dear God that film was terrible. I can confirm, for all those who have seen the film, that the War of Independence was not fought over Julia Roberts

I will say that Alan Rickman was great in it, but he rarely disappoints.

**Albatross**

Yeah, I prefer Michael Collins too, if only because the British are portrayed as human beings, as opposed to the baby-eating savages preying on the whimsical Irish poets/bumpkins that appear in 'The Wind...'

**Dreadclaw69**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
I'll second The Wind That Shakes the Barley it's a personal favorite of mine.

I went into it with low expectations, but once you get past the socialist perspective that the director uses and the constant references to a struggle in the North (Ireland wasn't partitioned yet) it was a great show.