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So my FLGS is running an 1850pt league, no Forgeworld, with a 500pt. sidebar of units that you can swap in and out of your main list. I've been cogitating greatly on a Sanguinary Guard list, and after looking at all my options this is what I plan to bring as my core:

225 - Dante
125 - Librarian with Jump Pack

90 - Sanguinary priest with Jump Pack, Combi-flamer, Melta Bombs
90 - Sanguinary priest with Jump Pack, Combi-flamer, Melta Bombs
170 - Furioso Dreadnought with Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer in Drop Pod

260 - Sanguinary Guard with 2x Inferno Pistols, Power Fist, and Standard
230 - Sanguinary Guard with 2x Inferno Pistols, Power Fist
230 - Sanguinary Guard with 2x Plasma Pistols, Power Fist
230 - Sanguinary Guard with 2x Plasma Pistols, Power Fist

100 - 2 Attack Bikes with Multi-Meltas
100 - 2 Attack Bikes with Multi-Meltas

After having read all the previous critiques, this seems to be a good mix of hitting power, mobility, anti-armor, and anti-horde. The question is what do I throw in my sideboard?

I'm thinking a squad of Sanguinary Guard with 2x pistols, and 3x attack bikes with Multi-Meltas... that's a point for point swap with the bikes and Furioso as it is, gives me another scoring unit and keeps a good bit of MM power on the board. This ought to be a good swap for situations where there's not a lot of heavy armor / MCs on the board, and not a lot of horde either. Most SM/GK matchups, for instance, would probably do well with this sort of setup. That takes 370pts of my sidebar, though, and doesn't really leave enough room for anything else... If I throw in another Fragnought, that's 170pts worth of the MM attack bikes, and leaves me with 30 dead points to play with - potentially filling that with a Deathwind Launcher I don't really see a lot of use for. I don't know that I really need 2 Fragnoughts worth of horde insurance though, given the meta here. Only one guy plays Green Tide and that's as close as we get to any serious horde players. The meta here tends to be pretty casual, with few people playing really optimized lists, though there's definitely some tough setups out there - so I'm not that worried about plasma / melta spam for the most part.

Thoughts / critiques?

This looks about as good as I can think of for a Dantewing list. You might consider shield of sanguinius on the libby so you can give more than 1 squad a cover save. Divination has the most utility with 10 man squads.

Yup, was planning to run Shield / Lance for the most part. Against Hordes it might be worth switching up a bit for some Telepathy - Psychic Shriek can be pretty brutal if the Dice Gods are in your favor.

Any ideas for the 500pt sideboard?

I would go with your idea of the Furioso swap. The core of list seems pretty stable, not sure what you would swap for sidebar. Having HB attack bikes instead of MM would be a good swap against most Xeno-based armies.

If you don't mind a non-SG unit, Sniper scouts go great with these lists to have one cheapo unit that sits at home and be pretty survivable.

I find MM bikes are still good vs xenos.

Another thing to consider having in the sidebar are FNP bikers with plasma guns and a MM attack bike attachment. It's a surprisingly effective unit.

Any player with decent armor is going to tear you a new donkey-cave .... You are counting entirely on the fact you'll get into assault

You mean armor as in tanks?

Yes , ( still getting used to Civilian terms for stuff ) Anyone who knows their fruit in tanks or something similar will tear this list apart , any templates , Flamers , fething lasguns even Jesus - your depending entirely on covering ground. - I'm not. Saying this is a bad list but I do believe you have made a fatal mistake in only taking two reliable anti- Armor units

I love Dantewing lists, I think they are great fun and awesome for friendly games but for a 1850 league I would assume other people are going to be running competitive lists, and I think the average league or tournament player will have a balanced list to take this on without many problems.

If it was my list, I would swap 3 of the SG squads to 10 man ASM squads, with 2 meltas and powerfists and possibly one with 2 plasma and a PW (Haven't tested plasma's that much in 6th myself), drop the combi-flamer and bombs from the SPs and give them PWs, and then set up your sidebar in two different ways, one way as 2 Dev squads with 4 MLs and a SP (possibly even 3, or even FNP lascannons?), and then one with maybe Attack Bikes and a SP on bike too, so that you have the option of stationary or mobile anti-armour.

That's just my opinion though, like I said I love Dantewing but whenever I have played it at around 1500 points I have been completely blown to bits by nearly everyone because I only have 24ish models.

Well it's got some inferno pistols. I'm sure you've seen me bring this up before, but the fundamental problem is that the BA struggle mightily to field TAC lists. So, us BA are picking our poison as what we want to be vulnerable to.

Kasrkin229 wrote:Any player with decent armor is going to tear you a new donkey-cave .... You are counting entirely on the fact you'll get into assault

That's pretty much the point of the codex, get into assault. 4 MM Attack Bikes are nice against armor. You could argue that they are better than having 4 meltaguns in the Assault squads.

Devs help in this role too but the list will be hard to sideboard out. What would you swap out of the list against mech, assuming you had the right stuff in the sideboard? With only 20 troops, they have to stay.

xspire wrote:If it was my list, I would swap 3 of the SG squads to 10 man ASM squads

If I recall correctly, the OP originally had a list up that did just as you suggested with SG mixed in with Assault marines. Looks like he opted for pure Dantewing.

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
Yes , ( still getting used to Civilian terms for stuff ) Anyone who knows their fruit in tanks or something similar will tear this list apart , any templates , Flamers , fething lasguns even Jesus - your depending entirely on covering ground. - I'm not. Saying this is a bad list but I do believe you have made a fatal mistake in only taking two reliable anti- Armor units

Really don't think it's as bad as you say.

First, jump troops can cover ground amazingly well. 2+ armor saves backed by FNP, plus board terrain and 5+ cover saves from the Libby mean that I'll likely survive to reach their lines. That's part of the challenge, though - getting there. It's something that only tactics and the situation at hand can determine.

Second, I've got a lot more than just two anti-armor units. In assault, I'll be going against rear armor anyways - which makes all those krak grenades actually useful. And that's not counting the S10/8 power fists, S6/5 power axes, or S5/4 power swords that are in the mix. I know from very painful experience how easy it is to lose armored units to assault units hitting that vulnerable rear armor.

As if that's not enough, I've got a pair of meltabomb carriers, a Dread with CCW, five melta pistols. Oh, and a S8 AP1 lance from the Libby.

I'll be able to handle pretty much any meched up list out there, as long as it's ground based. Assuming I can get to it and survive the overwatch of course. The only one that might give me fits is a DA LR heavy list - any more than about 2 of those, especially with a power field, would be a pain. But that's true for about any balanced army it faces, to be honest. And I've got a lot of S8-10 attacks on the charge if needed.




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reps0l wrote:

Kasrkin229 wrote:quote=xspire]If it was my list, I would swap 3 of the SG squads to 10 man ASM squads

If I recall correctly, the OP originally had a list up that did just as you suggested with SG mixed in with Assault marines. Looks like he opted for pure Dantewing.

Yup, that was me. I've decided to go pure SG because I feel that 2+ / FNP with lots of power weapons and stuff outweighs pure numbers of bodies. It's got roughly the same survivability against most things - 2+ requires twice the wounds to get a failed save on average vs. 3+, which also makes FNP more valuable.

Plus, I like the theme and the fluff. Want to make it as good as I can while staying as true to the theme as I can. MM bikes and a Furioso fill the holes a lot cleaner and a lot more effectively then RAS do, especially for the points.

My primary objection to the above post is the crazy amounts of plasma I see in about half my games. Now that transports are vulnerable to plasma, it's the go to weapon type. And, unfortunately, it makes a mockery of the SG.

Yeah, plasma's an issue, no doubt - same with melta. It's more of an issue given the low model count of SG armies - when all you've got is a cover save, SG and RAS are equally tough.

Fortunately, my local meta isn't that spamtastic, even though we've got some pretty good players. Moreover, it tends to be lascannons / meltas more than plasma for the most part - which is an issue, granted. But less of one than for plasma, since I'll likely be able to kite meltaguns for the most part until I need to get the charge off, at which point I'm only eating overwatch instead of full BS shots.

But hey, that's an inherent flaw of elite troop army lists. Part of the rock - paper - scissors of the game.

It's an inherent flaw of BA in general I would argue. For example, SW can cover their anti-horde aspect by just showing up with Grey Hunters. BA aren't nearly so fortunate.

Plasma vs SG is one of the things that makes me wish krak rockets were AP 2 and plasma AP 3. Makes more sense thematically, too. I just find it offensive that a rapid fire gun has a better AP than a fricking anti tank missile.


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The other serious problem SG has are terminators. If only the glaive encarmines were as cool as Incubi weapons........

Yeah, been working on how to handle mass Terminators. 1-2 squads I can pretty much ignore given my mobility, any more than that - or if I have to kick them off an objective - and things get really tricky really quickly. I'm basically going to have to go at them with 2-3 squads to ensure a rapid death and not take too many casualties... not much more I can do. At least I've got a decent amount of plasma / melta in those squads.

Massed MCs could also be a problem, due to having high toughness, good WS, multiple wounds, and throwing around lots of AP2 swings. Again, massing up against them to finish them off quick is about my only answer, and bubblewrap can be a major issue.

I would just try to ignore the terminators while you can. Try to get them out of position and use at least units to take on one. BA pays for mobility so don't just ram them into the nearest unit.

That's pretty much my thought at the moment. Looking at the math I'm basically trading SG for termies 1 for 1 if I get the charge off, less than that if they're Hammernators. That's not good odds, so I'd need a 2-1 or 3-1 overmatch to make it work.

Running the math against 'Nid MCs, I'm not as bad off as I thought I was, but I'd still want to go 2-1 or more to ensure victory in short order.

That's all including FNP/FC but not the priest / IC's attacks.