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Im just wondering if this is actually possible. As per the title, Im trying to think of a list for Grey Knights which is fun to play and fun to play against.

Thoughts/Suggestions?

Note, Im probably not going to actually play the list, im just trying to come up with a plan

Really kind of depends on who you're playing against as to whether or not it would be fun to be against.

Avoid all the WAAC and Spam lists, and you should be ok, I would think. If you're fighting Daemons or DS-dependant armies, don't spam Warp-Quake. Fighting hordes? Don't spam the Purifiers. So forth and so on. As an army, the GK aren't inherently broken, it's just that it contains several units that, when used in abundance, can make things incredibly lop-sided.

The most fun list for GK I have seen, was the "Barrel of monkey's" build. Basically, using as many of those Jokearu monkey's, for about 15 lascannon's on the table.

Not super competetive, but hugely entertaining xD

But yes, the odd thing is, everything in the grey knight's book, is a good unit. You would be hard pressed to build an army out of grey knight unit's that wasn't at least moderately competitive.

I would go nuts with some of the less used options. Inquisitorial Retinues offer lots of choices for entertaining lists. I run an Inquisitor with two daemonblades with unpredictable, although fun, results. I would go with the units that people typically don't play, just to see how they would work out.

Do daemonhosts still have a random chart they roll on? Back in 3rd I ran a radical Inquisitor list with several of those and they were pretty fun.

there s the 30 monkeys wıth coteaz ın 1500 and 40 monkeys wıth coteaz ın 1850 lists. just monkeys, nothıng else.

Well, I came up with this list, any feedback would be appreciated

HQ
Grey Knight Brother-Captain - 195
Psycannon, Nemesis Daemon Hammer

Inquisitor - 80
Terminator Armour, Nemesis Deamon Hammer, Psycannon

Troops
5 Terminators - 245
5 Halberds, Psycannon, Psybolts

5 Terminators - 245
5 Halberds, Psycannon, Psybolts

5 Terminators - 245
5 Halberds, Psycannon, Psybolts

5 Terminators - 300
4 Halberds, Psycannon, Justicar Thawn

Elites
5 Paladins - 360
2 Incinerators, Apothecary

Inquisitorial Henchmen - 180
12 Crusaders

Fast Attack
Stormraven Gunship - 230
Typhoon Missile Launcher

Heavy Support
Land Raider Crusader - 270
Psybolt Ammo, Storm Bolter

Dreadnought - 125
Assault Cannon

Purgation Squad - 165
3x Psycannons, Incinerator, Daemon Hammer

Total - 2500 on the nose.

Any thoughts?

I am a little confused by what you are asking in this thread.


Do you want us to give you advice on the list you posted in order to "optimize" it? Basically, to help you find a list that you can have a solid, consistent win-rate with in an competitive tournament environment.


Do you want examples of the more Crazy things you can do with the GK codex that lead to interesting games, but will probably not give you a consistent win rate, especially in a tournament environment?


As you say that you will "probably not run the list" is this just theory-hammer? What is this for?


=========


Fun GK Builds


Henchmen are crazy. They are the most versatile unit in all of 40k. You can build a strong list with them, but there are a lot of decent options that are a bit off of the track. For example Daemonhosts, Jokaero, Psykers are maybe not the best, but they are random and interesting.


"Shunt-Punch" is another off the wall GK build. Usually Mordrak + Tele-Knights and Interceptors. You put your whole army in their face on turn 1 and make them deal with it. Not consistent, but will lead to brutal games with lots of dead models on both sides.


With Grand strategy, you can build a "little bit of everything" style list as well. You can have minimal troops, but still have lots of scoring models. It gives you a bigger variety of units, and is less of a "Spam" style list.


==============

Comments on the list you posted

1) Brother captains do not really do all that much. You either take a Grand Master for the Grand Strategy, or an inquisitor or Librarian to buff a unit.

Instead take 2 inquisitors, but give them the Psyker upgrade so they can give a unit re-roll to hit.
OR
1 Inquisitor with the psyker upgrade and a Grand Master


2) Instead of 4 units of 5 terminators, take 2 units of 10.
a) Only pay for psybolt ammo 2 times instead of 4. save 40 points
b) Can deploy in larger units to better use the buffs from your inquisitors, or you can split into smaller units for more scoring.

Also, you will want some hammers in each group of terminators. They would like something to help them deal with 2+ Save dorks.


3) Paladins should have psycannons. it is simply a better weapon. it is good against everything.

I am not a fan of the Apothecary. it is too expensive in a 5 man unit. Also it only protects you against S7 or less guns. it does nothing against the S8+ AP2 weapons that paladins fear (like meltaguns or Demolisher cannons)


4) Why take 12 Crusaders, when you could instead take 6 DCA and 6 Crusaders? You still have some 3++ saves, but now you also have an insane amount of damage in the unit as well


5) Why give the storm raven the Typhoon launcher? the GK codex lacks melta weapons, and the storm raven in the best melta platform we have. It means that you have a very strong answer to any AV 14 on the table.


6) Land raiders are just bad. They die far too fast to far too many weapons.
Melta and Lance guns still hit very hard on the damage table
Gauss and Haywire will ruin your day as well, with hull points.

instead take a second storm raven. it would be cheaper, have more guns, be faster and harder to kill, and it would provide good target saturation.

Also, do NOT put Paladins in a Storm Raven. Paladins are very stron in the shooting phase. You want them on the table shooting every turn you can. If the Raven dies, so too will the Paladins, as they only have a 5++ save against the S10 AP1 hits.


7) Dreadnought

Taking 1 vehicle in a list with out many others is not a great idea. Basically, you either want to take a ton of tanks for target saturation or none at all. 1 vehicle will die fast as all of the anti-tank guns are aimed at it. with lots of tanks on the board, the enemy will not be able to kill them all.

Also, for 10 more points, you can get 4 S8 shots at 48". GK generally lack shooting at 48" and have a ton of shooting at 24". There is no real reason to take a dread for more 24" shooting.


8) Purgations squads are simply not that good.

They have very expensive psycannons. You do not want 4 psycannons in a 5 man unit. You want some cheap dorks to die so the psycannons can live.

Strike squads are really good, and they are scoring and their psycannons are cheaper.

Purgation squads with 4 incinerators is an interesting choice. It could go into a raven and hop out of the back and burn something to death. Then your raven would not have to hover to deliver its cargo.

^ Did you not get the part where he says its supposed to be a FUN list ?

 Warp Angels wrote:
^ Did you not get the part where he says its supposed to be a FUN list ?

Some individuals find great entertainment and fun with putting serious thought and utilzing logical decisions in army creation. I dare submit that you can have a fun and effective army.

 Warp Angels wrote:
^ Did you not get the part where he says its supposed to be a FUN list ?

So FUN basically means that the list should be bad. That you should waste points or spend them on ineffective things?

If that is the case I have really FUN Space Wolf list that you can try out. It is 2000 points, has only 21 models. It has a single gun in the list, and a single close combat weapon. It is a ton of Fun.
[I will not post it here as it is way OT, but if you are interested in seeing it, you can PM me]



Most players are looking for some kind of balance between FUN and GOOD. Also, remember that each kind of person enjoys the game in a different way.

If you have not heard of them, then read up on Timmy, Johnny, Spike players. [It is based on Magic the Gathering, but the core concepts apply to any game that can be played for FUN or Competitively]


The basic idea is that there are 3 ways people have enjoy a game


Timmy is the player who wants to "have fun". Basically, he wants to have big exciting things happen in the game, even if he does not win all that often.

Johnny is the player who wants to be creative. Basically, he wants to play the game with style. Winning is fine, but expressing yourself is more important.

Spike is the player who wants to win. Basically, the fun of the game is from the trill of competition, of out playing your opponent.


and then there are combinations of these 3 core elements.


The issue is that, I am not sure what kind of FUN the OP is looking for.

I'd say the second one is the closest to myself

Well a mix of the first and second...

If the second options is what is appealing to you the most, I might recommend a Henchmen list.


Henchmen are the most versatile unit in all of 40k. I would argue that this single unit has more diversity than the rest of the infantry in the GK codex combined.

There are a lot of standard and rather boring henchmen units (read min-max Razorbacks, Dudes with Plasmas and Bolters in Chimeras ect.) But there is a lot more you can do with them as well.



An 8 psyker unit is a good combination of Timmy and Johnny. You have a S10 AP1 Large Blast gun, that can move and shoot at 36". That is basically as big as a gun can get in 40k without going to Apoc.
It does not matter that it is fired by Ld8 psykers who have a possibility to kill themselves. S10 AP1 Large Blast! One way or another, big interesting things will happen with this.


With that much diversity, there are a lot of "combo" units that you can make as well. Jokearo and Meltaguns for 24" move and shoot meltas with a 12" melta range is pretty awesome. Add in some bolters for when you roll rending and you are good to go.



If you are interested, you can take a look at what my 2500 pt henchman list looks like, and more about how it plays in the link in my signature. It is under "Part 2" and it is the last list on the table on contents.

I did recently take Corteaz in a list as allies, should I look into having him as a HQ to make Hencmen troops?

If you want to run a "Henchmen Army" then Coteaz is mandatory.

With him your henchmen are troops, and you do not have to run any of the somewhat bland GK with their storm bolters and Psycannons. Instead you get to run basically as many units of crazy henchmen as you want.


Without him you are limted to 2 units of non-scoring henchmen. That is not enough to build a list off of, but you can include them in a list based around normal GK if you want to.

ok, well, im editing the list I posted above.

I will post that revised version and a Henchmen List later tonight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HQ
Grey Knight Brother-Captain - 195
Psycannon, Nemesis Daemon Hammer

Inquisitor - 80
Terminator Armour, Nemesis Deamon Hammer, Psycannon

Troops
10 Terminators - 470
5 Halberds, 5 Hammers, 2 Psycannons, Psybolts

10 Terminators - 505
4 Halberds, 5 Hammers, 2 Psycannons, Psybolts, Justicar Thawn

Elites
5 Paladins - 355
2 Psycannons, 5 Halberds, Psybolts

Inquisitorial Henchmen - 180
12 Crusaders

Fast Attack
Stormraven Gunship - 230
Typhoon Missile Launcher

Heavy Support
Land Raider Crusader - 270
Psybolt Ammo, Storm Bolter

Dreadnought - 125
Assault Cannon

Total - 2250 on the nose.

Any thoughts on this new list?