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Am I missing something?
Q1)The soul grinders Iron Claw is Unwieldy. Walkers ignore Unwieldy. Does it literally just ignore it? If it does, what's the point of having it on there?
Q2)Does slow and purposeful affect walkers? (given by the MoN)
Q3)Are walkers without dreadnought close combat weapons ap- in close combat? The iron claw is ap2, the warpsword is ap3 so I assume they're no ap, but I couldn't find the rule last night.

Thanks in advance

Q3.
A walker without a weapons with an AP 5-1 value is AP -
A DC dread with blood claws is ap3 as it only has lightning claws. So you either choose your AP3 sword and get it's benefits or you use the AP2 claw and get it's benefits.

Q2. Yes. You get all the additional restrictions that slow and purposeful gives you without any real gain.

Q1. Probably but I'm only looking through the codex now so there may be another factor.

The unwieldy USR explicitly excludes walkers and monstrous creatures from its effects.

As to why it's there? I dunno, why do some daemons have a 6+ armor save?

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Q3.
A DC dread with blood claws is ap3 as it only has lightning claws. So you either choose your AP3 sword and get it's benefits or you use the AP2 claw and get it's benefits.

Excellent example - thanks


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jmswargaming wrote:
The unwieldy USR explicitly excludes walkers and monstrous creatures from its effects.

As to why it's there? I dunno, why do some daemons have a 6+ armor save?

So you could choose to use it if you want? If you like taking risks...

PredaKhaine wrote:
So you could choose to use it if you want? If you like taking risks...

You must use the best save available to you.

Though there are times when a 6+ armour save might be the best a Khorne daemon has, like if it got hit by the Warp Storm result and also a Grimoire of True Names.

As to why it's there? I dunno, why do some daemons have a 6+ armor save?

The reason they have an armour save is so they can have the same profile listed as it is in fantasy, stupid I know but I suspect its the reason.
That's why the bloodcrushers have such a poor save as in fantasy they are just a mount and don't need most of their stats, they have a special power that improves the armour save of the rider and they use his save.

It's unlikely, but possible, that Iron Claw gets given to something other than soul grinders...or that walkers get their ability to ignore unwieldy ruled away. As it stands though, it's pointless.

SnP takes full effect, but in practice its all negative given that walkers are already Relentless.

Two things:

There is an effect out there that makes a model/unit lose all of its special rules (can't think of it off hand). Since the MODEL loses the special rules, and not the weapons, the SG would lose its walker status but the weapon would still be unwieldy.

As for the armor save - first, the above comment. Also, and this is only in an Apoc game, there is a CD model that ignores ++ saves...so if the model has an armor, it would check against the AP.

 Amaraxis wrote:
Two things:

There is an effect out there that makes a model/unit lose all of its special rules (can't think of it off hand). Since the MODEL loses the special rules, and not the weapons, the SG would lose its walker status but the weapon would still be unwieldy.

As for the armor save - first, the above comment. Also, and this is only in an Apoc game, there is a CD model that ignores ++ saves...so if the model has an armor, it would check against the AP.

Unit type isn't a special rule. You cannot "lose" a unit type.

 liturgies of blood wrote:


Unit type isn't a special rule. You cannot "lose" a unit type.

This ^.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 Amaraxis wrote:
Two things:

There is an effect out there that makes a model/unit lose all of its special rules (can't think of it off hand). Since the MODEL loses the special rules, and not the weapons, the SG would lose its walker status but the weapon would still be unwieldy.

As for the armor save - first, the above comment. Also, and this is only in an Apoc game, there is a CD model that ignores ++ saves...so if the model has an armor, it would check against the AP.

Unit type isn't a special rule. You cannot "lose" a unit type.

But aren't the rules associated with the unit type special rules?

The example I saw was an MC losing all the special rules from being an MC...so wouldn't a Walker lose all of the special rules? Or is it just USRs that get lost?

No, you can never lose the rules associated with your unit type.


As for why the Claw is Unwieldy. Its for the future. Maybe another model that doesn't ignore unwieldy will gain access to the Iron Claw sometime.

 Amaraxis wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 Amaraxis wrote:
Two things:

There is an effect out there that makes a model/unit lose all of its special rules (can't think of it off hand). Since the MODEL loses the special rules, and not the weapons, the SG would lose its walker status but the weapon would still be unwieldy.

As for the armor save - first, the above comment. Also, and this is only in an Apoc game, there is a CD model that ignores ++ saves...so if the model has an armor, it would check against the AP.

Unit type isn't a special rule. You cannot "lose" a unit type.

But aren't the rules associated with the unit type special rules?

The example I saw was an MC losing all the special rules from being an MC...so wouldn't a Walker lose all of the special rules? Or is it just USRs that get lost?

The special rules that a model has are listed in their entry in a codex. These are the ones that can get taken away if there is such a rule to take them away, also any other special rules that these then benefit. That example is arse to say the least and i'd stop listening to whoever told you that, EVEN if it is a GW employee.
It is also not the unit type walker or MC that takes away the restriction of unweildy it is the unweildy rule itself. Read the top right of page 43.

The effect in questionis Spawndom or Daemonhood from the Boon table in Codex Chaos Marines. That also changes your unit type. I don't see there ever being such a loss of special rules that would be applied to a *target* - the possibilities are convoluted enough to generate games balancing hell.

 Super Ready wrote:
The effect in questionis Spawndom or Daemonhood from the Boon table in Codex Chaos Marines. That also changes your unit type. I don't see there ever being such a loss of special rules that would be applied to a *target* - the possibilities are convoluted enough to generate games balancing hell.

They don't change your type they replace your entire model and give you a different model or unit. I assumed that we were talking about rules like the Necron HQ that takes USRs off of units.

Sorry - that is exactly what I meant, I just didn't word it particularly well. (...must apply for a job at GW.)
I don't recall the Necron one and don't have the Codex handy right now, what's the wording on it? Is it specific USRs, or all?